A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry


MTSOs - It IS time to Join Hands - Play Fair - Concerned IC/Tired of these Constant Accusations


Posted: Jun 02, 2013

I am a concerned IC.  I would like to keep my job(s) as an IC and actually still have MTSOs be around to provide jobs.  With all of this garbage constantly going on and hurting the businesses,  I think that there needs to be some recourse for the MTSOs.  All of you so-called IC MTs proclaiming to do other's favors, no thanks.  You are not doing any of us "professional" ICs a favor - you are hurting ALL of our businesses, driving all of our work right out of the country.  YOU are the problems with this industry.  With so many poor quality ICs out there, as evidenced by the posts on this board, it is polluting our work pool, driving the IC rates right down.  Why would an MTSO want to pay what an MT is worth when they are getting so much poor quality service themselves out there.  Maybe if they had ICs who could provide them with quality work, they could afford to pay more.  And stop with the attitude, I will provide with quality work "when" they pay more. If you don't like the money you are making, go get a job that pays you what you want.  That excuse is as dumb as wearing a pair of shoes that are too tight, they hurt your feet, but you keep wearing them.  If you are not in the business to provide quality work, then you should not be doing this, PERIOD.

Here is some food for thought ~ Maybe it IS time for MTSOs to play fair.  It would seem that the Independent Contractors would like to be treated fairly - as the business they are.  After all, if you are an Independent Contractor, then you are a business owner just like the MTSOs, right?? 

Well MTSOs, since these ICs can come on this board and tell the world about every little ache and pain (some warranted, many not) they had along the way while providing services for a company, maybe it is time for the MTSOs to get their message out there about the little world of business owners, called ICs.  When you have an IC, or business owner, who provides you with a subpar service, or downright crappy service, maybe it is time you expose them on this board or another board set up just for MTSOs, so that other MTSOs don't waste their time hiring them.  That would leave more work for the quality professional ICs out there trying to contract their services out.  After all, fair is fair, right.  And after all, just like these ICs (business owners) are self-proclaiming to do all this as a favor for all the other ICs out there by warning them of all these "so called" bad companies, maybe it is time the MTSOs join hands and also do each other a favor and relate to each other the good and bad ICs they have had experience with, because fair is fair, right?  We all know that if an MT didn't do a good job for an MTSO, they surely are not going to list them on their job profile/resume for reference.  So there certainly needs to be a way to help each other, and in the process help the GOOD IC MTs out in the process.  

If you can save another MTSO the headache of contracting with any of these bad ICs out there, maybe eventually the bad ones will have to move right out of the business and in effect we can clean the industry of this pollution. 

MTSOs, be sure to keep in mind, if you post slander about an IC (business owner) that is not true, like so many do on here now about MTSOs, you could be sued for slandering their name (business).  Oh and remember, you too, as an MTSO also have that right, to sue anyone on here that posts 'slander and untruths' and damages your business name.

I do think that it is time that the MTSOs start to play fair, and mirror image what the ICs are doing to them on this board.  Lets give credit to the good ICs (business owners) out in there so that their services may always be in demand, because there are some VERY good, self concientious, successfull ICs out there (and they surely are not on this board complaining).  However, lets now start to weed out the bad ICs (business owners), because they are the ones who are hurting this entire business.  MTSOs also need to join hands, and help each other do that fairly - just like the ICs say they are doing here. 

Now that is some fair play, isn't it!!

Whoa! Did YOU just open a can of worms! - Be prepared....

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I'm staying out of this one, but I will be watching to see what is said in response!

agree with OP - American MTs whine too much

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No wonder they want offshore our work

This board is for AMERICAN MT's, not - Indian....

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NM
Question - xxx
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Racist much?

Americans complain too much - American

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Americans complain "too much" for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that we are taking pay cuts while being expected to do more work and unlike you offshore people, we can't pay our bills with what we are now making. The second reason is because we ARE Americans and we have freedom of speech (at least for now). We don't have some guy standing over us who is going to fire us or beat us if we make a mistake. And you off shorers, I don't mind sharing the work with a person who does the work for his/herself and gets paid fairly for the job. But I was offered a job as a QA manager for an Indian transcription company that is based in the U.S. The owner wanted me to keep track of mistakes and when the transcriptionist made THREE mistakes, I was to fire him/her. NO WAY would I take that job or be involved in the inhumane treatment of fellow human beings, no matter what country they are in. You don't hear MTs complaining there because if they are independently employed, they are probably making enough money to pay their bills, unlike those of us hear. If they work for a company, more likely, they don't have the freedom to voice their complaints. So shove it!
Americans complain too much (addition) sm - American
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*correct "hear" to "here"

By the way, our jobs are not being lost because of outsourcing. Our jobs are being lost because of technology. Yours will be too.

You think MTSO should play fair? Everyone wants to *get theirs - first*, then fix the problem. SM

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No MTSO is going to share the profits anymore than they have to to keep the work flowing. No MTSO is going to change how they do business just cause an IC wants them to. I think your time would be better served to how you can maximize your own personal success.

And I will always advocate MT know every aspect of how they are getting paid, what they are or are not getting paid to do. To even hint that MT should expect that MTSO is going to do the right thing is crazy. One should expect the direct opposite of one earning their pay based on anothers labor.

Agree - with you

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Oh do I agree with you about that OP expecting the MTSOs are going to do the right thing (that is absurd!) I have no sympathy for MTSOs out there whatsover as they are the ones that created this mess to begin with. I work very hard for quite a number of years myself and to see our salaries go down the toilet like they have is unreal.

play fair - unbelievable

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Hoo boy. That just takes the cake hunny. But I'm sure the higher ups at the MTSOs are ever so grateful for your suggestions. I'm sure they are hanging on your every word.

I just can't even express my disgust at this post.

You need to get with your legal counsel - Nick

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before you have anybody actually do this and have him or her review the libel and slander laws, their causes of action, and the types and amounts of remedies the courts typically award. Since I am not a licensed attorney, I will not attempt to provide legal advice other than implore you to run this past your own counsel, but I do think that posting names of anybody on either side is playing with fire.

I'm not an attorney - nor do I play one on TV

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BUT, if Mary Sue Typer is an IC and takes on business from Big Bad MTSO, then she does shoddy work, doesn't show up when she says she will, etc., how is that different from Whiny Wendy Worker working as an IC for My MTSO and claiming they don't count all the lines or they don't provide enough work, or they don't hold conference calls to hold the hands of inept ICs?

If you are posting a TRUTH about a business, how is that slander/libel?

And yeah, yeah, I know you're not an attorney you just want to point that out every time you not give advice. So let's just pretend you're one for conversation's sake, k?

BRAVA!! - If only

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Putting PROFESSIONAL back in the job description would be wonderful.

As an IC for nearly 40 years, I agree with your post wholeheartedly.

Of course, you're going to get kicked in the proverbial face but kudos to you for speaking up.

Great post! Thank you! - anon

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Thank you for your post. I for one have quit taking on additional clients. The ICs I have had do not even bother proofing their work and tell me so, and I pay well over the nationals, on time, and out of my own money.

Thank you!

Proofing work - Trollbaby

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I would love to work for a company who appreciates me proofing my work! I always proof my work! I think everyone should! The company that I work for does not appreciate this and only really cares about quantity not quality!

Proofing.. - anon

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Wow... not me. I cannot send in inferior work, and quality comes in above all else, which is why I pay more and out of my own money.... before the clients are even billed, I pay..

Thanks for your post. Made me smile...

Note to MTSO: Who can afford to proof when - you dont pay us for the time?

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You can't have it both ways. You pay bad, you get bad. You're doing away with employee status anyway, and now you're bellyaching about IC's?

Pffftt! Go tell someone who cares.

Proofing and pay.. - anon

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I do not know about other MTSOs, just what I read. However, I pay 10-12 cpl (spaces, headers/footers, etc.), and most of the reports are templated, which means you only type patient name, date of birth, and date of exam, which makes it up to $8-$12 per line (a very small line at that). For that money paid, I do expect he and she to be correct, right or left, and correct level of procedure performed or whatever. I pay ICs more than I get paid, before I get paid, and they incur no dictation capture costs that I do. I DO make sure clients speak clear English, use a landline, etc. Most of the workload is just pulling priors and changing the date, yet they are paid for entire reports. I simply quit accepting new clients.

Playing fair is for Sesame Street not Wall Street - MT

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You've lost your perspective concerned IC. Business isn't personal and it's not about fairness--it's about profit margins for owners and investors. Of course a good business owner will contract for the best service at the lowest price, keep doing business with the reputable ICs and the reputable ICs will get more work, etc. Tit for tat on some emotional level is just silliness that no professional will spend time on. The legal system defines fairness in the world of business, everything else is just capitalism.

Wall St. "profit margins" and their greedy investors - will destroy this country unless we stop them.

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nm

Not just bad ICs, but also bad MTs and QAs - Des

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"If you are not in the business to provide quality work, then you should not be doing this, PERIOD."

This is a good statement.

Clients see it this way: Why should they pay our high wages for marginal quality, when they can outsource it for a lower price and end up with the same overall marginal quality.

Sure, our pay has dropped, and that sucks bigtime, and for those of us MTs, QAs, etc., who are still producing the high quality expected by our clients, we are most certainly underpaid. But for those MTs who call in sick regularly, who produce just the bare minimum, who don't bother to verify terms, who don't bother to learn and actually comprehend what they're transcribing (including medications), who are just automatons smacking the keyboard, those MTs are now finally getting paid what they're worth.

Well, just dare to name ME on this board/post, and see - how fast you hear from my atty. nm

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x

Really - Do you have something to be concerned about - Concerned IC/Tired of Constant Accusations

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So name you on this board and see how fast one hears from your attorney, really?  Are you an IC (business owner)?  Would it bother 'you' to name another business/owner on this board and say something about them, something maybe not favorable? Or do you think that is okay to do to them, just no one should be able to do it to you?  Why not?  If you are a dependable IC that provides great work, what would you have to worry about?  Or, are you worried for a reason??


Tit for tat, as another poster said.  So true.


You see - it would seem while all the ICs are busy posting about how unfair MTSOs are to them, there would seem to be a bit of "unfairness" going on here with them as well.  While they are so busy preaching how they are being treated so unfairly - they aren't really bothering to tell you the whole story.  Here is a fact - you want to all be treated like and IC - I say MTSOs it IS TIME to treat them all like the IC - business owners they are.  When they provide you with a bad service - report them - there are websites such as Angie's list.  They have a section just for contractors - where they can be reviewed AND rated.  Hmmmm - now wouldn't that be a novel idea. Every time you had a contractor that provided you with poor service, didn't show up on time, quality stunk, you could just send in your review to save other MTSOs the headache of hiring them on.  I would be willing to bet there are other websites out there as well that have this  ability.   


An IC is a business - if you choose to use your personal name as your business, then that is your choice and that then is the name of your business. 


"An independent contractor is a natural person, business, or corporation that provides goods or services to another entity under terms specified in a contract or within a verbal agreement."  An independent contractor can itself be a business with employees; however, in most cases in the United States independent contractors operate as a sole proprietorship or single-member limited liability company. This means the independent contractor, as a business owner, incurs its own expenses to provide the contracted service, must acquire its own equipment to perform the service, and is responsible for business filings such as income tax returns.


So fair is fair - if you all want to sit on this board and bash MTSOs on a daily basis (they are business owners just like you) - Then shouldn't it only be right that they could do the same to your businesses.  Maybe you need to choose your business name more wisely if you don't want your personal name used.  If your name is John Doe and that is what you are operating your business under, maybe the MTSO could post about John Doe doing poor business, doesn't show up on time, provides very poor quality work, etc.  After all - if an MTSO used their own name as their business name such as John Doe Transcription - are you telling me you couldn't post about them on this board because their name is involved??  Somehow, I don't think that would matter considering it is an MTSO.  I guess I don't understand this mentality - it makes absolutely NO sense for any of you to think you can bash another company - yet you don't think they can do it to you. 


MTSOs - maybe you need to seriously look into this - really !! Since all of these "self proclaimed" ICs (AKA attorneys) say that they would sue you for bashing their business - hmmmm - that must mean you should sue them for doing the same to you.  ~ Or is it okay to do this company bashing (like they do) - meaning it would be just perfectly okay for you to warn others about them too, just like they say they are doing. 


So yes Tit for Tat.  I think it can be done. 


Come on MTSOs get on this bandwagon and find out - Can you rate an IC just like any other business - WHY NOT??  How about you start giving them what they are truly asking for - "treat them like the TRUE Independent Contractor they are"!!!  All this talk about them turning MTSOs into the IRS on a daily basis - I say GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT. 


This is where the Good IC MTs and the MTSOs do need to work together to weed out the bad from the good to preserve our industry!!  Lets get busy!


I have had the poster warn me about the "can of worms" I may have opened, those that have tried to take the focus off the true subject by resorting to the "errors" in the post....blah, blah, blah.  I don't care.  You are the "weeds" that need to get out of the garden, and will eventually be pulled from the garden. 


Those of you "professional" IC MTs out there - know exactly what I am getting at here - you know why our industry is getting to be as bad as it is.  You also know how some bad MTs on your team can pull the entire team of MTs in a company down.  You also know how they are actually costing you money as well.  You are the ones paying for their poor quality work in the long run as an MTSOs cannot afford to pay good wages when they are busy having to pay QA money to take care of subpar work.  The good IC MTs are working their fingers off, sometimes working far too many hours, to try to make up for the lack of effort of a poor quality IC MT so that their companies don't have to overhire to make up for this lack of effort affecting their work volume on a regular daily basis, and all because the bad IC MTS attitude of "they are independent and don't have to work if they don't want too.  They are dragging the entire team down and everyone knows it. 


MTSOs and Good Professional ICs need to work together now to get rid of them out of this industry in order to turn this back around.  Just a way to monitor these bad contractors from recycling through companies would be a HUGE start to this issue - and would be a feather in all the GOOD quality ICs cap, not to mention help out the MTSOs as far as the revolving door of MTs coming and going - this costs companies big money, help with quality issues (less QA needed), AND if they don't have these yahoos working for them - maybe all of this trash talk hurting their business could be dampened.  Maybe the MTSOs could then afford to pay their good IC MTs a little more - and for those out there saying - they wouldn't pay better anyway - again - you are the weed! Get out of our garden - we don't need you hindering our crop any longer!


 


 

No, just making a point of what response this would - get. But what would keep SM
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a disgruntled less-than MT from naming me since I do qa?

I am employee of great standing with my MTSO, but I have been an IC in the past. The OP really needed to think this thing through to its conclusion before she posted. But some people are like that.
Btw, post too long, didnt read in its entirety. - nm
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zx
May I ask why you are blaming just - the ICs in this industry?
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there are just as many bad, poor, under qualified, and "I don't care" attitude "employees" for these so called good MTSOs, so why are you not blaming them for the same things that the supposed bad ICs do? You sound like a very disgruntled IC-MTSO who may have had some ICs working for her, and got bashed on here by them not being treated "fairly" by you...an IC-MTSO who subcontracted her work to others. Maybe you should choose more wisely in who you are subcontracting work to, and treat them (the IC business owner) with more respect, and then you will not be bashed by that person either on here or on any other board. What goes around comes around and if an IC disappointed you in some way, there must have been a reason for it. Not everything is the ICs fault.
That goes back to the first post, which, was also - too long to read entirely. nm
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s
Because this is what ICs want ~ - Concerned IC
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Again seriously - why single out ICs - because you want to be singled out.  You don't want to be treated like an employee - remember. 


I sound like a disgruntled IC-MTSO - well which is it?  According to some - MTSOs and ICs are not one in the same, so they can't be named on this, or any other, board - or ARE they one in the same and can they be named on this, or another, board just like an MTSO then??? 


And also I should be more careful who "I" contract with;  I am careful.  I am an Independent Contractor and I carefully choose which company(s) I want to contract with.  However, I would like the MTSO(s) that I contract with to have a better method of screening so they could be careful of who "THEY" contract with because it affects me as well as all the other GOOD ICs out there trying to make a living - yes I will agree with you there.  A better method of choosing contractors - a rating systems of sorts (5 stars vs 0 stars) could help them steer away from the bad recycled IC MTs, those who affect all of us and our bottom line in this business. Bad IC MTs aren't listing many of these MTSOs on their job profile/resumes when they are terminated, just floating on to the next unsuspecting company. They very often deceive MTSOs and there is no way to verify it.  However, if MTSOs start to communicate - these job hoppers couldn't get away with it anymore.


And again - you are right - what goes around, comes around.  Thank you for making my point.  I think for every MTSO getting complained about by these IC MTs affecting their businesses, it should come right around on them and the MTSO should be able to have freedom of speech as well. Why shouldn't they be able to post exactly what that particular contractor's quality was. I am sure they too have a story to tell.  And whereas not everything is an ICs fault - lets bring that back around too - not everything is an MTSOs fault. 


And right, is there ALWAYS a "reason" an IC MT has disappointed an MTSO - sure there are many reasons, like they didn't feel like getting up and getting on today, they overslept, they have a headache, Johnny has baseball, sorry for all the mistakes - having a bad day, etc, etc, etc.  However, they are independent - so they can do that, that is their right.  It is also your right to fail as a business owner - agreed.  


Once again - for all the good IC MTs - they wouldn't even be remotely worried about MTSOs having this ability to rate their services - in fact WE would welcome it!!  This means the good IC MTs would have a good rating and their services would be in great demand.  I believe the ability is there - I think that it just needs to be set forth!


 

Good MT canned for playing by the rules - MT
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I've read through this incredibly long thread and the OP sounds like a small MTSO who must have gotten bashed. While I agree it would be nice if everyone played fair, but that's not reality. I am a qualified, respectable IC with high morals and ethics. I was working for a small MTSO who wanted so much control over the IC they were violating IRS/DOL contracting rules beyond belief. I've been an employee for the big MTSOs and they didn't require so much paperwork and time management. When I reminded the small MTSO I was a contractor not an employee and their paperwork was beyond the scope of the contract, I was locked out of the system in minutes. Shortly after that I received an e-mail stating they would no longer be in need of my services, etc. So for the MTSO wanted the nativity of the unseasoned ICs for over reach their control and weed out the true IC/business owners who know their stuff. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. The OP is missing pieces of the big puzzle.
Good MT - IC
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Maybe the OP needs to consider that good ICs don't want to work for her company because of something she is doing. If a good IC finds a good MTSO there is generally a "business arrangement" that goes on for years, because just like MTSOs ICs don't like to make a lot of changes either--it costs both of money to change. Just saying!
Good MT canned . . . meant to say - MT
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So the MTSO wanted the nativity of the unseasoned ICs for over reach of their control and weeded out the truly professional IC/business owner who know their stuff. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. The OP is missing pieces of the big puzzle.
Do you mean naivety...sm - As in innocence
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or inexperience? For a minute I thought I was in a nativity scene at the Christmas play.
Do you mean naiety . . . yes I did! - MT
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thanks for the QA--hard to stay accurate when I'm do darn frustrated!
Do you mean naivety . . . good grief can't seem to spell today . . . nm - MT
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nm
according to moderator, re an earlier post no spelling police here, so doesn't matter--nm - carry on troops
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xx
I would post that MTSO's name on here SO fast - it would make their heads spin. -nm-
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.
I would post that MTSO's name . . . Medscribe--nm - anon
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nm
Smile.... - anon
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I smiled. Thank you!

It costs a lot of money to edit as well as hire MTs and send all templates and info to MTs who have no intention of working. To the new MTs out there asking if there are good companies and money to be made, yes there is. If you turn in quality work, your desk will never be empty-the best advice my instructors gave me. Quality does count and is very much appreciated! I am very sorry at what the nationals have turned transcription into and some cheating their very best workers, but some companies are willing to pay extra and very much appreciate the MT's effort.

When I call in sick, it's usually cuz I've got a - better-paying side-gig that day.

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If you MTSOs truly cared about "quality work", you'd pay your MT's like the educated professionals they are, not like day-labor grunts.

We have no sympathy for you at all. And here's a suggestion: Why don't you start your own MTSO website, and quit polluting ours?

MTSO tab... - anon

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I pay ICs twice as much as what I am reading on others' posts (and include spaces, headers/footers, canned text, anything than can be counted). I am no longer an MTSO despite having access to profitable accounts and, in fact, gave away all accounts that I could not transcribe myself. I truly agree. We need a tab.

Moderator, I think we need a tab for the smaller independent MTSOs, ones who even use 1 subcontractor or a few up to 20 or so to keep our accounts as well as expand. Maybe then, the other MTs could stay employed at a higher rate of pay and earn a good living instead of leaving the field, companies who truly appreciate their MTs and depend on their skills, one where we could interact and fill jobs without being unindated with several thousand applicants we have in no way time to respond but yet do not want to offend and can grow from. Why should Nuance and other companies have the monopoly, especially when they lower salaries?

I'm not an MTSO and you clearly didn't read my post. - Des

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Try again.
Calling in sick.... - anon
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I do not know who you are referring to but obviously nobody subcontracting/MTSOs, as we do not have sick days at all. If MTs do not cover the workload, we simply give up or sell the account. Then, nobody else has work either, but this is better than ruining our reputation or working 24/7.

This happens all to often, either with no shows or poor quality. No, I do not pay as low but 8-12 cpl for what little has to be typed. Wonder while Nuance and MModal have all the business....and pay a fraction of what smaller companies pay...

The MT who does assist who works 1/2 afternoon per week and does not call in sick earns over $2500 per month.

Amen... I understand others frustrations but... - anon

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This does not include all MTSOs, especially us smaller ones. I have "been around the block" and though while usually lucky (hard work and lots of education involved), I too have worked for horrible MTSOs (when my clients went EMR) who have not paid me or QA being so bad (docking my pay for items found in obscure books instead of required guidelines or blanks they cannot even understand), and I too was in tears. Been there, done that. I know all sides of the coins. However, when I have very lucrative accounts (templates paid for, headers/footers, spaces, bold/underline double pay, etc.) and pay the MTs more than I even make only to have them turn in work by their own report they have neither proofed or just do not care, it breaks my heart and hurts my business because I cannot meet my growing clients needs or give other MTs a great opportunity because of extremely poor quality work turned in. It costs a lot of money to listen and correct 100% to voice. I do insist on clients speaking extremely clear, using a landline, etc., and pay MTs out of my own money before I even bill the client. I could care less about hurting a "physician's feelings" by demanding they speak clear. It is a risk management issue and affects TAT. I have had to refer clients to larger MTSOs who pay substantially less and treat their MTs not as good and pay substantially less just because the subcontractors transcribe he instead of she, left instead of right, etc...... Or to my horror tell me such as such doctor does not pay them enough to copy and paste an address (which I provide). I am their client and pay them enough. I think 12 cpl is paying enough compared to what I read here (most of this is already on the report via templates/canned text). I even had an MT tell me it was not her job to transcribe a report! She said it was only her job to type the patient name (which she also got wrong). Yes, you read that correctly. I give very few account specifics, 3 in fact to cover all accounts. I do not let clients dictate a zillion unimportant client specs. They trust me to turn in professional work. When I send in the final report to the MTs asking very nicely to do something one way according to instructions/BOS or fix something, instead of the professional reply of OK, etc., I either get completely ignored and fix the same thing over and over and over or get extremely nasty replies, and then bad posts on this board (with the exception of a few). I also get the "professional job hunters," who have no intention of working but just seem to apply and accept jobs, but then never show up for work. I never overhire, so now I have no coverage and had to give accounts away and/or quit accepting them. I guess they would rather work for 6 cpl instead of 10-12 or more. I even had one MT break into my house for payment on a few reports only sent to me 1-2 days prior, and with all the mistakes, it took me the other 2 days to edit mistakes 100% to voice and transmit to the client, of which she was sent a cc of the transmission to the client. Who pays that quick? Errors included male when the patient was female, wrong spelling of patient name, major medical errors (some of which could have killed the patient due to huge narcotic dose mistakes typed, etc.), and then she gets furious when I told her I had to contact the client and refer them to another service. I did pay this MT immediately, my husband rushing over the check personally to what was a drug hotel down the street. Go figure.

I understand everybody's frustration with larger MTSOs, but us smaller companies, especially ones hiring for overflow on our own accounts we transcribe ourselves, would lose our own work if not for assistance from the subcontractor, and we therefore treat them exceptionally well and incur costs from such help until a certain skill level has been met, and then we just break even if at all. Mostly, it is just to keep the account.

Only the larger MTSOs are making money. I feel extremely hurt reading posts how were are "riding on the backs of others labor." Maybe the larger ones but certainly not the smaller mom and pop companies. We are now expected to pay for dictation systems, landlines, faxes, platforms when applicable, cell phones in case we might be lucky to leave, QA costs, computers, backup equipment of each, service contracts, IT, health insurance, utilities (large, as we have to keep all equipment cool), hiring/training/QA, secure business email, software licenses for everybody, business licenses, accountants, reference material for all fields, etc. I for one do not live in some fancy home but a very small apartment, smaller than MTs who subcontract from me. My car.... in the car port collecting dust because I cannot afford insurance.

There are several sides to a coin. I definitely see why the smaller companies are being bought out. I for one refuse to outsource overseas but now understand why some companies do so.

Yes, I do wish, as the poster suggested, we could list those ICs and warn others. I lost several hundred thousand dollars trying to train let alone all the editing behind and turned down numerous lucrative accounts not to mention the professional damage incurred. To the professional subcontractors I have met, I want to really, really extend my appreciation for your assistance, as I have always and sincerely so.

MTSO's point of view - Aaron

[ In Reply To ..]
You definitely have a point. People like to complain. I believe the ones who can't make more than minimum wage are the low producers with high blank counts. The good MTs are too busy on the technical how-to chat threads to comment.

You wish. (nm) - Blind eye...

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Aaron, you are way off base (sm) - Angie

[ In Reply To ..]
The more conscientious the MT, the lower the line counts produced. Lines counts are not a way to determine competency. Those who do all the free labor the MTSO's demand, while not making a cent, have the lowest wages and line counts. On the other hand, people who do not follow the rules by not proof reading, can have counts twice as high as the one who does everything by the book. I won't call the non-proofers "cheaters" because it is simply a response to being cheated, a necessity for some to make ends meet.

Any MTSO who does not check references needs to learn a little about business. I have 20 years of excellent MD references with contact info, yet not one MTSO I have worked for has called them or requested to see the reference list.

I also fail to see evidence of bad MTs. The one out of 800 applicants who gets the job is pretty damn good.

Your post proves you MTSO's are clueless. - Dont waste our time.

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Hah! We all know *who* the OP was that wrote this. - Just cant put it in print. (sm)

[ In Reply To ..]
LOL - "Play fair?" What MTSO even knows that those words mean? "Fair" is definitely not in their vocabulary.

They're just coming on here and posting as *indignant* [and fake] MTs because they realize that lots of us are on our way out the door before they're finished using us up and spitting us out on their own terms.

MTSOs are all real pieces of work.

Please. All MTSOs move to India, already! YOU BELONG THERE. And don't come back.

I don't know who this - disgruntled MTSO is

[ In Reply To ..]
but she is very bitter about any IC that she has had working for her obviously, and now wants to bash the whole species of ICs just because somebody obviously bashed her. For someone to have said something negative about her business ethics, she must have done something wrong. Wish I knew who it was so I would know enough to stay away from HER.

Play fair - Whatever

[ In Reply To ..]
When you promote yourself as a business, you are giving potential employees or contractors every right to discuss how you are to work for. It is funny to me that you say this, and complain about MTs, when EVERY SINGLE ONE of the bad companies out there is CONSTANTLY recruiting transcriptionists because no one wants to work for you. The good companies that are out there, still trying to stay afloat, are not the ones you see complained about on here. And you also don't see them advertising jobs. Because they don't have to. Word of mouth about what a good company they are gets around, and they have a bank of resumes to choose from if they ever have job openings. I worked for a good MTSO for 6 years. Their main client changed their platform and we lost our jobs. That is the instability of this industry. If you want to "play fair" - pay your ICs and employees fairly and treat them like decent human beings and you will never find yourself being complained about on here.

Excellent post - Snow Bunny (the original)

[ In Reply To ..]
but people need to stop blaming the MTSOs for being solely and exclusively responsible for the current $$$ situation. The problem started years ago with the former AAMT ... pushing and pushing for "quality" transcription. They drove that point home ... only *real* MTs should be doing this job. And as MTs throughout the industry bought into the routine, they self-elevated themselves so far up they had to look down to see heaven. Knowledge = power and more knowledge = more money (higher line rate). I personally know ICs who were charging 12, 14, 16, or more cents per line back in the 1990s. Oh yeah ... lots of trips to Europe, boats, fancy cars, private schools for their kids, etc.(I know this for a fact). Take a 12+ cpl rate and multiply it by 300 to 400 lph and that's $36.00 to $48.00 per hour that doctors and hospitals were paying. That was 100% profit for any IC who had their own accounts. Now, multiply that same # of lph by the higher rate. What was that you said about greed? Ahem! Oh, but we're "medical language specialists." To quote John Stossel, "Give me a break!" The doctors and hospitals never asked for this ... the AAMT did. Well, the AAMT was a Pied Piper and the MTs were the mice, and we all know how that story ended. (glub)

Over time, more people have sought medical care which equals more reports and letters. There's not enough MTs in this country to handle the demand, but the work has to be completed in a specified turnaround time. Add to that skyrocketing medical costs and what do you do? You gotta keep up with the demand while cutting costs. How do you accomplish that? You go to countries which are cheaper. Somebody in India earning $10,000 a year can live in the lap of luxury. What does that translate into for somebody living in the US? Way below the poverty level. Plus, there's more people living there so that means the work can get done. Down comes the line rate (12 cpl) and from that a percentage goes to India, a percentage goes for overhead costs, and what's left goes for MT salaries.

But, remember the AAMT: Quality above all else!!!

And then came the advent of technology, a.k.a. speech recognition. Hmm, interesting. Hospitals are cutting costs, which drives down the line rate. Medical Records was always at the bottom of the $$$ food chain in hospital (fact). How do you keep up with production and manage costs? You combine overseas (quicker turnaround) with quality (US MTs), through in a little technology (speech recognition) and voila! And what happened to the AAMT. Oh, they jumped into one of the lifeboats and left the MTs on the Titanic.

As far as so-called MTSO "greed," unless you folks have access to the books, you don't really know what the costs and profits of any service is. You can create a picture in your head of what you THINK is going on, but it's pure speculation. You don't know what the services are billing the hospitals. You don't know what the services are paying the overseas MTSOs. You don't know the cost of overhead (i.e. employee benefits). You don't know ...

You may not like or agree with what I said, but it's the truth, and truth isn't always nice or very pretty.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. As long as the US MTs continue to give in to the demands for "quality," at low wages, you're never going to end the current situation. It's an ego thing and it's the ego that's at fault. "Quality" is feeding the ego, but it's not paying your bills.

Let me end with this ... close your eyes and create this scene in your mind. On July 1st every single MT in this country went on strike until their line rate was increased. All of you, on strike. The work is still being mass produced overseas or through the speech engine, but what's the quality going to be? There's no one here to clean things up since the MTs are on strike. What will the hospitals and doctors think of the train wrecked reports they receive from overseas? Yikes! All hell's gonna break loose now.

Take a lesson from India of years past. How they won their independence from Britain. It's called passive resistance. If you want a higher line rate on the grounds of quality, then you gotta provide a convincing argument. Stop the editing.

Or, in the words of Don Corleone ... "Make them an offer they can't refuse."

Strike - To Snow Bunny - Not an IC

[ In Reply To ..]
If nothing else, your thoughts are interesting. The demands for quality are there, but not for the reasons you indicate. Accurate medical reports are necessary for accurate billing and to support patient care. You are probably familiar with recent lawsuits in regard to incorrect medical information. A strike cannot be called without a union and besides that how are people going to go on strike against every individual MTSO? You mention India and offshoring. If domestic workers "stop the editing and make them an offer they can't refuse" all of the work will go there and there will be no jobs left in the US, except for the QA staff so the quality will still be in place. I've seen some inflated egos throughout my working life and yours is one of them if you think you can bring the MTSOs to their knees. It is not a fact that Medical Records is at the bottom of the food chain; that is where coders reside and without them no one would get paid. By the way, I am privy to what my facility is being charged by the MTSO and I'm not ignorant. Quality feeds my ego, simply because I take pride in my work and anything worth doing is worth doing well. Aren't you the one who said she was getting out of MT a while ago? What happened with that?

Strike--in response to Not an IC - Tess

[ In Reply To ..]
I think snow bunny is very accurate and it seems you just need her to be wrong. Aren't you just splitting hairs by saying a strike can't be called without a union. I believe her point about going on strike is just asking everyone not to work on that day to draw attention to the problem, not a formal unionized event. Many employees have gone on "generic strikes" and become members of a union--which might be a good thing for MTs. People also boycott industry/companies and those strikes/boycotts caused positive changes--Memphis sanitation workers, Rosa Parks, Ford women sewing machinists in Essex England, Crystal Lee Sutton, and the list goes on. I also think her statement that medical records is at the bottom of the $$$ food chain was accurate in regards to the "medical record"--again it seems you are splitting hairs with the coder remark--it's as though you need to make sure someone is wrong and you are right. As for the consequences of a strike, it would not send all the jobs overseas as many contracts require US workers and many US citizens (patients and physicians) want their healthcare records managed in the US. Also the poor quality product would eventually draw attention back to the US MTs that do a great job and deserve more. I can promise you risk management isn't going to be comfortable with the errors that I've seen from overseas. Getting this industry, which will have a growth spurt in 2014, back to recognizing and respecting the human aspect of the MT is not a simple black and white, easy process. We collectively can create change, but first we really have to want change and not just be anonymous victims on MT Stars. All we need is a serious conversation, committed MTs and Diane Sawyer!
Tess - Not an IC
[ In Reply To ..]
Great name, by the way. The problem for many people in regard to going "on strike" is that they are going to lose a day's pay. I'm in a different situation in regard to my job status, but I am self supporting and cannot afford not to show up for work, besides the fact that I'd get fired, maybe you can afford to put your job on the line. I was an MT for 35 years and now work in medical records, I'm no where near the bottom of the food chain regard to pay, and I am not a coder. If SB does not want people calling her out, she should not make such statements. Management is using offshore labor now and seems happy with the error rate, why do you think you walking off the job would change that? If you think they are going to give you more money just because you are an American and think you deserve more, I want some of what you've been smoking. You know this discussion goes around and around, but I have never seen anyone take any action. I also think Diane Sawyer probably has better things to do with her time. Why do you think MT will have a growth spurt in 2014? That is when we are supposed to have a fully functional EHR and probably even more Dragon and point and click is going to be used. Anyway, good luck in your endeavors.
staying on track - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]
>>>The problem for many people in regard to going "on strike" is that they are going to lose a day's pay. I'm in a different situation in regard to my job status, but I am self supporting and cannot afford not to show up for work, besides the fact that I'd get fired, maybe you can afford to put your job on the line.

You are absolutely correct in your statement about lost wages, and youâre also in a very difficult situation in terms of not rocking the boat so you donât lose your job. --- Of course I was talking in terms of âwouldnât it be nice,â so humor me and just imagine the scenario I suggested.

>>>If SB does not want people calling her out, she should not make such statements.

What gave you the notion that I didnât want people calling me out? I encourage healthy discussion and an exchange of ideas. Bring it on!

>>>Management is using offshore labor now and seems happy with the error rate,

If theyâre happy with the error rate, then why do they need QA, and why is QA so anal about things?

>>>why do you think you walking off the job would change that? If you think they are going to give you more money just because you are an American and think you deserve more, I want some of what you've been smoking.

Haven't smoked that stuff in over 15 years, so I've got nothing to offer. --- Country of origin has nothing whatsoever to do with it. The hospitals want/need quality. The MTSOs are giving it them. Itâs just the method of payment dispersement thatâs changed. Letâs say a service was/is billing 16 cpl. Thereâs a ratio/formula that you use to calculate what you pay your MTs. For the sake of discussion, letâs say 55% went to the US MT (8.5 cpl) and 45% was kept by the service for overhead and what not. Now, you have the overseas MTs. The service does not necessarily have to change their billing rate, but now youâre dealing with two factions: US MTs and India MTs, so the dispersement has changed. Instead of the US MT getting the full 55%, now maybe 20% goes to India and whatâs left is 35% for the US MT. Itâs not the âgreedyâ MTSOs thatâs the problem. Itâs the fact that thereâs a new player in the game (India) and they have to get paid.

>>>You know this discussion goes around and around, but I have never seen anyone take any action.

Probably âcause a lot of MTs are in the same boat youâre in, or their wages are so low that they canât afford to fight the issue. Itâs âput up and shut up.â

>>>I also think Diane Sawyer probably has better things to do with her time. Why do you think MT will have a growth spurt in 2014? That is when we are supposed to have a fully functional EHR and probably even more Dragon and point and click is going to be used. Anyway, good luck in your endeavors.

Then maybe MTs need to get out of the industry now rather than wait until 2014.
staying on track--Snow Bunny (the original) - Tess
[ In Reply To ..]
I understand the consequences of going on "strike" is impossible for some people--and perhaps your statement was tongue-in-cheek. But honestly, 2 hours on one day would show the country how vital US MTs are. I also didn't intend to imply it was only about getting more money, although taking a portion of the money, in your cost analysis, that goes to India and giving it back to US MT could improve wages some. My intentions are to bring attention to the sweatshop style industry transcription has turned into by many of the big MTSOs. We are not computers that can be left to idle waiting for work to come in, perform at 99.5% accuracy while feeling the pressure to get more lines to make minimum wage, the constant fear of retaliation, etc. These are not reasonable working conditions in the United States and unless the issues are brought into focus it is not going to change. Diane Sawyer/ABC News have regularly been promoting bringing jobs back to the US and they profile these stories continually. I think it is somewhat odd for you not to have awareness of the lawsuits and/or care about them and hold such strong ideals about the industry, don't you need to factor all aspects into your opinion. The lawsuits are important to all MTs and have the potential to improve the way were are being paid and treated. In 2014, with the implementation of every American having healthcare coverage, there will be an huge increase in the number of patients being seen. Yes, there will be Dragon and templates, but not enough to make it a wash for all the people who finally get to go to the doctor and get ongoing care. All VA contracts are mandated to hire only US MTs and pay prevailing wage, which is generally $15.00 to $17.00 an hour with benefits. The whole electronic medical record is a part of the healthcare reform and it was modeled after the VA system, so why not look at the wages the VA pays also. America needs more work, better working conditions and pay for our MTs which in turn improves our economy--outsourcing to India does nothing for the big American picture and that matters to the average citizen. Automation has changed our industry but it will not eliminate all MT/MLS/QA and the work that is left should be done by US workers in legal working conditions for reasonable pay.
the current industry - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]


I believe all that would result from a 2-hour "shutdown" would be greater stress on the US MTs to play catch up once things were up and running again. It's kind of like disciplining kids. They need to feel the punishment ... and not physically or mentally ... just enough to convince them that they won't repeat the negative action. And, anyone with kids can connect with that. 

I like Diane Sawyer but she's fighting a losing battle. We're a country based on buying, not producing. It's been that way for many years, dating back long before J.P. Morgan was a force to be reckoned with in the late 19th and early 20th century. We've also evolved into a world of mass production. Consider the change in the MT industry when we switched from typewriters to computers. Raise your hand if you remember and ask yourself how much your paycheck increased when you became proficient. Producing a "normal" chest x-ray using a typewriter might have taken 10 minutes, but with a computer ... import template, off it goes, and you're paid for everything on the page, even though you didn't type it. --- Where do you think the problem originated from? The MT industry needs to accept their share of responsibility for the ultimate outcome of what they are dealing with today. Sorry, but it's the truth. While innovation was a boon to the MT wallet for many years, it's now a curse. Kharma, perhaps? 

But getting back on track ... you are absolutely correct when you speak of what the industry has become for many (I was lucky in not becoming a victim, 'cause I avoided the Pac Mans of the MT words, i.e. Nuance). But, I can tell you right off the bat that a major problem is getting paid a lower line rate for a report that is the product of an untrained speech engine. More often than not, the entire report has to be retyped but the MT is getting paid nearly half the rate than they would if they typed it "from scratch." Consider it ... would MTs be as unhappy if the VR rate was removed and *ALL* lines were paid at the non-speech rate? I don't think so. 

Why do you feel it's somewhat odd that I have little to no knowledge about the lawsuits but still have a perspective of the industry. They're unrelated to each other. One is present tense and the other is past tense. I didn't get out of the industry because of what where it is and will continue to go. I got out because I've been burned out with boredom and I've got sciatica. So, the lawsuits and what-not do not impact my life. But, it doesn't mean that I shouldn't speak of what once was and how (I feel) it contributed to what exists today. You might say, "What goes around comes around." I think the VA pay/benefit structure is a good one and $15-17 + benefits is a decent package for an experienced MT. But, your dealing with private industry for the majority of services throughout the country. It's a whole new set of rules Example: On a federal holiday the post office (government) will close, but Starbucks or Wal-Mart doesn't. The constant fear of retaliation ... well, I don't have an answer for that one. My nature is to be self-focused and choose the lesser of 2 evils. Similar to 1978 when the hospital I was working for instituted a no-smoking policy on Friday. I gave my notice in on Monday. I wish I had an answer for the problem, but I don't. But, it doesn't change my right to express my views, or the right of anyone else to agree or disagree. I don't know ... maybe people need to look back in history to other times (i.e. when women worked in the factories for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week) and do what was done then to change things. History always repeats itself.


I believe all that would result from a 2-hour "shutdown" would be greater stress on the US MTs to play catch up once things were up and running again. It's kind of like disciplining kids. They need to feel the punishment ... and not physically or mentally ... just enough to convince them that they won't repeat the negative action. And, anyone with kids can connect with that. 


I like Diane Sawyer but I think she's fighting a losing battle. We're a country based on buying, not producing. It's been that way for many years, dating back long before J.P. Morgan was a force to be reckoned with in the late 19th and early 20th century. We've also evolved into a world of mass production. Consider the change in the MT industry when we switched from typewriters to computers. Raise your hand if you remember and ask yourself how much your paycheck increased when you became proficient. Producing a "normal" chest x-ray using a typewriter might have taken 10 minutes, but with a computer ... import template, off it goes, and you're paid for everything on the page, even though you didn't type it. --- Where do you think the problem originated from? The MT industry needs to accept their share of responsibility for the ultimate outcome of what they are dealing with today. Sorry, but it's the truth. While innovation was a boon to the MT wallet for many years, it's now a curse. Kharma, perhaps? 



But getting back on track ... you are absolutely correct when you speak of what the industry has become for many (I was lucky in not becoming a victim, 'cause I avoided the Pac Mans of the MT words, i.e. Nuance). But, I can tell you right off the bat that a major problem is getting paid a lower line rate for a report that is the product of an untrained speech engine. More often than not, the entire report has to be retyped but the MT is getting paid nearly half the rate than they would if they typed it "from scratch." Consider it ... would MTs be as unhappy if the VR rate was removed and *ALL* lines were paid at the non-speech rate? I don't think so. 


Why do you feel it's somewhat odd that I have little to no knowledge about the lawsuits but still have a perspective of the industry. They're unrelated to each other. One is present tense and the other is past tense. I didn't get out of the industry because of what where it is and will continue to go. I got out because I've been burned out with boredom and I've got sciatica. So, the lawsuits and what-not do not impact my life. But, it doesn't mean that I shouldn't speak of what once was and how (I feel) it contributed to what exists today. You might say, "What goes around comes around."


I think the VA pay/benefit structure is a good one and $15-17 + benefits is a decent package for an experienced MT. But, your dealing with private industry for the majority of services throughout the country. It's a whole new set of rules Example: On a federal holiday the post office (government) will close, but Starbucks or Wal-Mart doesn't. The constant fear of retaliation ... well, I don't have an answer for that one. My nature is to be self-focused and choose the lesser of 2 evils. Similar to 1978 when the hospital I was working for instituted a no-smoking policy on Friday. I gave my notice in on Monday.


I wish I had an answer for the problem, but I don't. But, it doesn't change my right to express my views, or the right of anyone else to agree or disagree. I don't know ... maybe people need to look back in history to other times (i.e. when women worked in the factories for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week) and do what was done then to change things. History always repeats itself.

Tess--Not an IC - Tess
[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks for the compliment on my name. I got off track in the thread here and posted my response to your post under SB! Thanks for the stimulating dialogue everyone.

No strike - Snow Bunny (the original)

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm fully aware of the necessity for accurate medical reports, but I haven't read anything about the recent lawsuits (not interested, to tell you the truth). --- My stating "go on strike" was a play on words, so to speak. MTs are not unionized, to my knowledge, so if 100,000 US-based MTs stopped working one day and refused to go back to work until their wages were increased, they might be T-canned but it'll take a l-o-n-g time t replace them all. You'll see a panic in the MTSOs the likes of which hasn't happened since Oct 29, 1929.

As far as all work potentially going to India, perhaps it will, but I seriously doubt if QA will be able to keep up with things, unless they plan on working 24/7. We're talking THOUSANDS of reports on a daily basis. And what's to stop QA from joining the fray of MTs who "strike" for better wages? Bottom line: *IF* the work done by the speech engine is as disastrous as I'm reading here, and *IF* the MTs who work overseas are not up to US standards, and there's no US-based QA to clean things up ... what will be the end result?

No, I don't think the MTSOs can be brought to their knees, but the MTs sure as heck are in need of knee pads right now. Why is that?

Medical Coders make a *LOT* more than MTs. I've seen entry-level coding positions advertised for $17+ per hour, and that's working from home. I've also seen coding positions seeking 5+ years' experience, paying $30 to $45 per hour. How has their net worth increased but the net worth of the MT decreased? In 1983, I started working in a hospital doing MT, 35 hours per week with 100% hospital-paid benefits, earning $308/week. Switched to IC status in 1986 with my own accounts and was grossing $110,000 by the end of 1989. My last MT job in April 2013 ... less than $8/hour. The quality of my work has never changed since day one, so what happened? Well, for one thing the line rate changed. In the 1980s, there was no 65-keystroke line count. Anything on a line, was a line. You got paid for headers and footers. You didn't have a 24-hour turnaround, either.

I think quality *should* feed your ego. Feeds mine, too. BUT, I'm not going to accept less than I'm worth anymore. That's my bottom line.

And, yes, I am out of MT. Right now, just helping a local woman catch up with her backlog. I'm doing interview transcripts and getting paid $0.0975 cpl for dictation that's of excellent quality. But, I've already been made an offer from a company and I'm just waiting for the background check to complete. Once it does, I'll be an Assistant UM Case Manager for an insurance company.

Look ... nobody, including me, accused you or anyone else of ignorance. I merely stated my position on this issue, which is contrary to what others feel. That's okay ... keeps the world spinning. You get dizzy at times, but life is never dull.
UM Case Management - Not an IC
[ In Reply To ..]
It's easy for you to cry "strike," your job will not be on the line. I'm a US based QA person and darn lucky to have my job after department was outsourced. Do I think I'm worth more? Absolutely. Am I going to throw a temper tantrum and refuse to work until I get my way? I think not. I'm curious, but how do you plan to get 100,000 people to bend to your will? Are you planning to pay their wages while they wait for their pay to be increased? What you are advocating is not doable, sorry.
Perspective does not equal answers - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]
As I said in another message, the word "strike" was a poor choice. It was meant to create of a visual of what would be the end result. Panic on Wall Street, so to speak.

I don't plan on doing anything, nor did I state "fact" that what I'm advocating is doable. The truth is ... I think the MT industry can be compared to the Titanic. At the time, the regulation # of lifeboats were there, even though, if filled to capacity, they could only save half the passengers. It took the disaster to change the law and require ships to have sufficient lifeboats to save ALL the passengers on board.

I don't know if there is a solution to the problem. But, you have to ask yourself why any administration shows more consideration to foreign nations than it does to their own.
Why do you even care? - Not an IC
[ In Reply To ..]
If you are moving to a new career?
so because ... - Snow Bunny (the original)
[ In Reply To ..]
I'm leaving MT I should not express my views on the situation? Hmm...

I adore cats. So, does that mean I should not continue to volunteer at a greyhound rescue organization?

I'm also intensely anti-religious, but does that mean I can't tell a religious friend that they should pray?

I guess my question is, why are you being "angry" (or having an attitude) toward what I say? I'm open for healthy discussion (kudos to Tess), but having an attitude, like you are clearly demonstrating, weakens your stance.

This approach seems fair to me - sm - ICMT

[ In Reply To ..]
The MTSOs require extensive testing and references from ICs and/or employees who apply with them, correct? Deciding which company to work for is a pretty big deal. So suppose we get some references from ex-employees (since they call our ex-employers), and how about you take a test so that we know what it is like to work for you? You want to know we can do the job you want to have done. We want to know the job you are providing. That seems pretty fair. If not, I guess we have to keep checking on here to see what others have to say about you.

You seem kind of jaded. - IC

[ In Reply To ..]
I do my work and do it well. I'm lucky, in that I've had my clients for years and know the staff well.

I don't see what good can come from egging people on to call each other out. You may not like the way another IC does business, but it is their right to do so.

Your approval is not required. If you don't like what other people are doing to the industry, find a new industry. Keep yourself in line and don't worry about other people.

And don't blame me--I charge .16 a line and do a bang-up job.

No blame, but lots of applause, we need more like you--nm - MT

[ In Reply To ..]
nm


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