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Time Clock - Angie
Posted: May 22, 2012
The requirement for ICs to use a time clock is apparently to protect the service from being sued for unpaid labor, right? If you sign in honestly, i.e. whenever you are doing anything for this job with the service, tech tweaking, software installation, training, spreadsheets, research, phone calls, etc., etc., etc., it would put you into overtime and you are fired, right? I'm just curious if anyone is given written instructions to sign in ONLY when your fingers will be pounding the keyboard, and never for other work we do.
I'm an IC and I've never used a timeclock - IC and Loving It
[ In Reply To ..]I get paid by production only, so no timeclock. IC rules are different from employee rules, though. I wouldn't do a timeclock as an IC unless I was paid hourly. Are you paid hourly?
IC's are being required to use time clocks now... - Angie
[ In Reply To ..].
Where? I don't. - IC and Loving It
[ In Reply To ..]And I don't see the need to use one either as an IC. Employee law is different from being an IC. I'm curious as to who is requiring it and why.
ICs sell their services. There is no reason those services - cannot be measured by time. SM
[ In Reply To ..]I used to be a true IC as an appraiser with my own business who wrote and signed my own reports. I sold my services per job, each a contract. If a business had wanted to buy a week of my time, on the clock, I would have given them a price and sold them that week.
Time is only ONE criterion among many that are considered together to determine whether an IC relationship exists. In and of itself, timekeeping does not have to be inconsonant with IC status.
Added to everything else, though, it's skating awfully close at very least. For sure many "IC" MTs are just employees being ripped off royally, with their permission, of course. It'll be extremely interesting to see how this plays out in court, as it certainly eventually will--failing sabotage by a crooked legislative branch and crooked judiciary.
no they aren't - sm
[ In Reply To ..]If you are using a time clock, you're a misclassified worker.
Just because you call yourself an IC and your company calls you an IC, doesn't make you an IC.
I'm a TRUE IC and I don't punch a time clock or account for my time in any way to any of the MTSO's I contract work from.
I've asked you this before, Angie-- WHY ARE YOU DOING IT? Your stories just don't ring true to me. Sound much more like fishing expeditions.
BTW- What does the contract you presented the MTSO with say about time clocks? And why would you include that?
(I already know you will say you didn't/can't/couldn't give them a contract which is bunk.)
Agree - IC and Loving It
[ In Reply To ..]The only way an IC can be using a timeclock is if you are really an employee and the company is trying to get away with not paying your taxes. ICs are not accountable for time nor are they committed to a schedule set by the MTSO. My contract states what my TAT is. I work when I want and thus pay my own taxes. I set my own schedule and work when I want to. I am not told when to work, thus no timeclock is necessary. And as an IC, if you don't have a contract, there is something really strange about that too.
I don't need to be educated as to the difference... - Angie
[ In Reply To ..]between an IC and employee.I've done both for decades. I am new to working for a service as I have always had my own accounts OR been employed with hospitals. If you read the posts on this board you would be aware that it has been reported that many services are requiring ICs to use a time clock now.
As to your snide comment "your stories just don't reing true to me". That does not even merit a response.
There is a need to know what ICs using time clocks with services are doing and what they are clocking in and out for. Majority rules and thus the need to know what the majority is doing. Get it now?
I get it - sm
[ In Reply To ..]And your real "story" is gathering information for the flock, I imagine and not at all your continued coming across as not so bright regarding time clocks. So rather than rail at time clocks and that not being your real point, why not just say- I want to know who to take to court?
This is about the use of time clocks.... - Angie
[ In Reply To ..]NOT taking anyone to court. I don't understand why some have to twist everything into a fight when MTs should be working together. Do you have no interest in knowing whether or not MTs are being fired for working overtime when they are classified as ICs?? I want to know the truth. Are we better off clocking in our REAL time or just "production time" we are paid for?
Time clock or no - ICManiac
[ In Reply To ..]If a person has to punch a time clock, it should be when s/he "arrives and is ready for work, giving full attention to the task at hand, until the end of her/her designated hour to stop being available."
Notice I put a period at the end of my sentence. That person is an employee.
It is not about being an IC. No IC should use a time clock. Being available for a specified shift is another thing altogether from being required to punch a clock.
The question is about control. If your are being required to punch a clock, you are controlled so tightly that you are not an IC.
no - sm
[ In Reply To ..]I don't have an interest in knowing whether or not MTs are being fired for working overtime when they are classified as an IC. If MTs wised up and stopped taking jobs that misclassified them, this discussion would be moot.
If you're an IC and punching a time clock, you're not an IC. Really is all there is to it.
If you are an IC, overtime isn't an issue - IC and Loving It
[ In Reply To ..]It's all about the contract you make with the company, or the contract that you agree to with the company, so long as that contract follows the rules under IC and not as an employee relationship that they are trying to pass off as IC, which a lot of companies are trying to do nowadays. If a contractor agrees to a certain pay, and the job takes longer than expected, they can try to ask for more money, but they aren't necessarily going to get it because they signed a contract.
As for your other comment about MTs working together, I do think it would be nice if MTs all were nicer to each other on here, but what I think and feel doesn't really matter much on here. It is what it is. And I'm not trying to fight with you. I'm just trying to understand where it is you are coming from and making sure you aren't really an employee being duped by your company you are contracting with.
No, I don't get it. It sounds like an employee relationship to me - IC and Loving It
[ In Reply To ..]I'm trying to understand how being and IC and clocking in and out work, but I'm not seeing it. I read the rest of the posts and the last post on here does make sense to me where the person is paid hourly while she is actually working, but the company is keeping track of it on their own; however, it seems that person can still come and go as they please as long as they get six hours in. I'm not sure I agree with the required six hours either, but I guess so long as s/he is not being dictated how those six hours are done, it still fits under IC.
Apparently not all of them, mine does not require a time clock - Whether for QAing (hourly) or MT work (cpl)
[ In Reply To ..]Please try not to generalize all the companies into one category. It's very confusing to others.
Did not generalize - I never said "all companies". - Angie
[ In Reply To ..].
You said "ICs...", which indicates collectively grouping - Thats why ur post generated a "huh" response
[ In Reply To ..]As you can see, you might be in a minority here with the time clock situation as an IC (and you sure have my sympathy, ugh!). I think your post apparently confused quite a few of us by not stating "Some ICs" or qualifying your statement.
As an IC, if you want to be paid for all the stuff you mention - IC and Loving It
[ In Reply To ..]Then that kind of thing would need to be spelled out in your contract. And you would have to prove that you are doing it, but I'm not sure a Timeclock would do it because you still couldn't prove that you did anything during that "on the clock" time. I guess you could stipulate in a contract that you want a certain figure daily on top of your production pay for any research, software installation, training, etc that you are doing.
By the clock - JW
[ In Reply To ..]I am supposedly paid by the hour. I am an IC. The company I work for has a clock when I am in a file and it shuts off in between files. It is all done by their system and keeps track of lines and time. I never have to put in a time sheet either. I cannot stop to do anything while in a file, not even go to the bathroom. I am required to work 6 hours a day.
You poor thing! - just me
[ In Reply To ..]Gosh, be careful how much coffee you drink... Do other companies require employees to punch out when they go to the bathroom? I think not...
Many people don't understand - HIPAA
[ In Reply To ..]You are not supposed to leave a report open while you step away for personal business. Maybe you just don't appreciate how they keep you protected?
That is just silly when you are working - sm
[ In Reply To ..]at home and in a secure environment. HIPAA has nothing to do with this discussion. If you are punching a time clock you are not an IC, period. MTSOs will get away with whatever they can especially when people are desperate for a job.
it is not at all silly - understand HIPAA
[ In Reply To ..]Part of HIPAA was to bring computers into compliance to monitor what employee is doing what. The directors of the MTSO don't know if you decided to take your laptop to the pool today and work from there, or if you live in a high rise with the drapes pulled open and you have a peeping Tom neighbor who has a fetish for the way your fingers fly all over the keyboard and watches you through a telescope.
It is the right of an MTSO to protect themselves from lawsuits because not everyone is capable of providing the same layer of security as is directed by HIPAA.
tell India about your HIPAA breach - just what on earth
[ In Reply To ..]What on earth does a peeping tom have to do with a time clock? He will peep whether you are punched in or not and the time clock does not know if your curtians are closed or if you are at the pool.
sigh, some people just dont get it - resignation - NM
[ In Reply To ..]
Paid by the hour - JW
[ In Reply To ..]The big problem I have with this MTSO is some of the dicators are very hard to understand and they expect 150 lines per hour and I'm not sure I can do that many. I get tired after about five hours and slow down. I am supposed to be paid by the hour but am still on production
that's how it should be - imo
[ In Reply To ..]This isn't an hourly position, no matter how much people want to spout off that it should be. Or if it's going to be hourly then there should be production requirements.
If you can't do 150 lph then I have to wonder what your skill set is, seriously. Brand new out of the box MTs do at least 100.
And since I'm going to get accused of being a suit and I'm not, let me ask a suit question: If you flag after 5 hours, you were then expecting to be carried by that hourly wage?
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