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Quality training - please help

Posted: Sep 21, 2011

I have seen on this board how important quality training is. I have also seen the Andrews School mentioned. Can anyone else offer any information, good or bad, regarding training programs so us wannabe's dont make a mistake selecting a program? Any that you woul recommend taking or staying away from?

Thanks

I'll try to help answer your question - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
If you're going to be a coder, the quality of training is everything! There are a few don'ts.

DO NOT enroll in a school or course where your work is graded by a computer. (I tried that once. It was pathetic! There were errors and nobody to ask for explanations when I didn't understand something; nobody to ask when I ran across what I believed to be another mistake in the computerized program.)

DO enroll in a school or course that has credentialed coders as instructors. (If they can't pass the CCS exam, they can't teach you to pass it. If they aren't interested enough in pursuing credentials, they aren't a good role model for students.)

DO NOT enroll in a school or course unless it specifically says, and can prove, that the course prepares students for credentials test such as the CCS (an absolute requirement in my opinion) and the CPC (also an absolute requirement). The CCA is not enough. Have them prove it by getting you together with someone who graduated from their course and has successfully taken the CCS exam.

DO NOT enroll in a school or course that just gives you an "Overview" or "Introduction" to coding. It will ruin you. I have friends who have done that. They graduated from community college coding programs thinking they were coders, but found out they didn't know enough to actually work as coders. One friend of mind got her RHIT from a college and discovered that it did her no good because the coding part of her training wasn't enough. You don't want a short coding course. You will be wasting your time and ruining yourself by learning bad habits. Take a solid, serious course, or don't do it at all. I say that from my own experience and the experiences of some of my friends.

Maybe someone else will add more DOs and DON'Ts to the list. I may think of others later.

Good luck with your search! I have my own favorite, but you're already familiar with it. Others may have their own favorites.

My choice on coding schools - sm - Coder-to-be

[ In Reply To ..]
I wanted/needed to learn in a classroom. Not convenient for me but I knew it was important to learn from a teacher physically in front of me and even learn from others in the classroom. I went to the AAPC site and found a heavily credentialled teacher who was teaching nearby to where I live and took her 80+ hour course. I sat for the CPC exam upon completion and passed.

For me, I knew I could not learn by myself or at my own pace. I wanted a real live person in front of me that I could ask questions to immediately and get a response. I didn't have the time to wait for e-mailed responses to my questions.

That is what worked for me personally.

Classroom vs. on-line learning - On-line grad

[ In Reply To ..]
I did attend an on-line program and I will have to say that one of the most frustrating things about it was having to wait for an answer to a question, or wait to get assignments or tests back to confirm that I was indeed understanding the issues at hand before moving on. However, I know that I would have had other frustrations if I had been in a classroom setting, and needed to work around an irregular schedule, so on-line was best for me and in the end, I passed the CCS and CPC exams upon completion of the course. Each person has to find what is best for them.

On-line grad - Needing info

[ In Reply To ..]
What class did you take on-line? I am currently in an associates and then bachelors program in business but will have to take coding with an accredited school. I'm taking the business degree to make myself more flexible for other opportunities besides coding just in case have difficulties with job hunting.

I would really like some information on coding programs - especially those that have financial aid since that is an issue with me.

Coding programs - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
Your interest in an accredited program so that you can get financial aid is understandable, but be aware that will limit you to college programs and it might not be to your financial or educational advantage.

The for-profit colleges can charge more than 30K for a coding certificate program, leaving you with huge debt to repay when you finish. Debt that large isn't easy to repay as an entry-level coder, particularly if you have difficulties with job hunting, and you ARE going to have difficulties with job hunting if you choose a financially aided program that prepares only for the CCA so that you can't pass the CPC and CCS when you graduate. If you default on those loans, you'll exclude yourself from a lot of coding jobs--all the federal ones (a huge market) and any of them that do a background check. You'll be stuck in low-paying small offices.

Community colleges charge less and offer the same courses. However, nearly all college programs are online. They have varying amounts of instructor support, ranging from none to minimal. A lot do not even have credentialed coders as instructors. You can say to yourself that you'll be the exception who does fine without an instructor, but in coding you're going to be surprised by how poorly you'll do without that. Those graduates can really struggle in the job market and many, many never get a certification.

You're in the first stages of a business degree. Associates and bachelors degrees in business don't prepare you for much. In terms of job preparation, they're not much better than English or art history. It's just my opinion, but if it were me, and speaking from experience here, I'd do it differently. I'd learn to code well first, scrounging the tuition for a quality program by washing cars, holding rummage sales, cleaning houses, and baking bread if I had to.

That would give me certifications and a job. At that point, I would do a health informatics degree leading to an RHIA. You might try Western Governors University for that. They're accredited by AHIMA, they're nonprofit, and their tuition is incredibly reasonable. They are totally online and set up to provide excellent student support from the minute you contact them to enrollment to the end. They don't have semesters but have "terms" of 6 months with a flat tuition rate per term. If you complete the classes you have for that term, you can add more in at no extra cost. It's possible to get done a lot faster for less money with them. With that degree, you would be marketable in healthcare informatics, which is the big new area in health information management.

If you're absolutely sure you must have financial aid, then just do the Western Governors health informatics-RHIA program. That would be far, far better than any business associate's degree or even a bachelor's, and faster. You could move on into their MBA in healthcare program, too.

When you finish a business associate's, you will be qualified for exactly nothing. With the WGU health informatics program, you would be immediately able to take the RHIA and get a decent job, whether in coding or in health informatics or just in general HIM. The job market for RHIAs is very good.

This is probably a dumb question, but - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
what kind of job can you get with a health informatics degree? I am guessing something to do with technology in healthcare? I saw on the news a while ago that healthcare informatics is going to be one of the most in-demand careers in the next 10 years!

I have a couple of opinions on that - Not the "Coder" who posted earlier

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't think anyone knows right now exactly what kinds of jobs are going to be available in health informatics. From all that I've been seeing, the skills that you have as a medical transcriptionist and/or medical coder are going to be helpful. You'll be able to take advantage of all that you know, no matter what kinds of changes happen over the next 10 years.

Not entirely true that is has to be a college program for financial aid....sm - MT to coder too

[ In Reply To ..]
I am taking an online course through PTI in Pennsylvania, and they offer financial aid. It is an INTENSE program and so far after taking 2 practice certification tests (which I passed), I feel it has definitely prepared me for the CPC exam, which I plan to take before the end of the year (I graduate in October). They use course material from the AAPC, and even get you a student membership to the AAPC and will reimburse you for the certification exam. Also, the course is taught by practicing coders (CPC AND CCS). I am VERY happy with the teaching I have received, though I have to say that coding is NOT easy, so make sure it is what you want to do. After going through this program, I feel I am really going to LOVE being a coder, and I am very happy that the end is near. HTH!

PTI course in PA - Shopping for course

[ In Reply To ..]
I have 2 questions.

1. Does the PTI course prepare you to pass the CCS exam when you graduate? 2. How much does it cost? Thank you for introducing another option.

I know it prepares you for...sm - MT to coder too

[ In Reply To ..]
the CPC, as that is what the course materials are based on including the practice certification exams. I do think it is possible to pass the CCS exam though, as again, the course is INTENSE. For the cost, you would have to call them for an accurate amount.

Intense or not . . . - CCS, CPC

[ In Reply To ..]
It seems intense to you because you're still taking it and have no frame of reference in real-world coding.

AAPC materials are focused on physician services (or outpatient) coding. You will be able to code ambulatory services that occur in a hospital, like radiology, pathology, ambulatory surgery, and emergency department, but you will NOT be prepared to code inpatient hospital stays.

That's what we're talking about when we say "inpatient coding" -- entire inpatient hospital stays, long-term care facility stays, rehab facilities, and so forth. Those are coded using different rules and the situations are more complicated, requiring a different level of analysis and decision-making. You have to code days and sometimes weeks or months of a stay together into one set of codes.

You also have to be able to code procedures using ICD-9 procedure codes. I do not believe the AAPC material cover that code set or its rules at all.

I say that with copies of those books sitting right beside me. I know what's in them and inpatient coding is not in them.

The CCS and the CPC do not cover the same kind of coding or material. They are very different.

no is intense because we ARE doing real world coding...sm - mt to coder2

[ In Reply To ..]
If you read my post, you would see that I said I was almost finished with my course...I do know the difference between inpatient and outpatient coding, as my course has touched on both, though is mostly geared for outpatient coding....again, read my post. Also, my course covers CPT, ICD-9 (and touches on ICD-10), and we use REAL WORLD reports...again, if you have not taken the course, please do not pretend to think you know what I am and am not learning. Also, it is intense because coding is NOT easy. I knew NOTHING about coding before taking this course (which by the way, I finished on the 10th and am preparing to take the CPC-H in November) and as I was stating to the op, it is very intense and is definitely not for the weak or those who think it is just putting codes in, as again, coding is intense and definitely a lot of work, which I DID expect and want, as I need a career that is challenging. While I did very well in my course, it was again NOT easy to do, but I do feel confident in being able to pass the CPC, hopefully the first time. I do feel that I was definitely prepared, as again, ALL my teachers are practicing coders with CPC credentials plus other credentials, so I feel confident also that I learned from experienced coders. Also, I did not say that the course was STRICTLY AAPC materials, because it was not. We utilized so much more than those materials, but this course is meant to prepare us for the CPC, which I can say that it has. Hopefully, the next time you hear from me, it is to say that I got my CPC-H, so wish me luck. I will be studying until I take the exam, hopefully on December 3, 2011, to keep all that I have learned fresh in my mind!

I also meant to say that it teaches about HCPCS also....nm - mt to coder2

[ In Reply To ..]
.

Thank you. nm - You go girl!

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Health Informatics Jobs - One of Them . . .

[ In Reply To ..]
What kind of a job can you get with a health informatics degree? Jobs in health information management or what you might call "medical records." Basically any HIM job, but ALSO all those jobs that involve electronic record systems and information databases.

HIM was originally based on paper records. It dealt with managing those records, collecting and reporting data from those records (that's where coding fits in), ensuring the privacy and confidentiality of those records, handling legal issues regarding those records, etc.

Those paper records are now being converted to electronic records, so all of the thing mentioned above now have an electronic component. Instead of shelves to put those report-stuffed records on, we now have to create computer systems to handle all of that, deal with data collection, privacy, and everything else from an electronic standpoint.

Traditional HIM programs taught about paper records, leading to the RHIT (2-year technician level) or RHIA (4-year administrator level) credentials. A lot of programs still teach mostly about paper records, but toss in a computer course for "the future."

Some new HIM programs are focusing on electronic records right away. They cover the traditional material as well as providing a thorough grounding in electronic records and computer science, so that graduates have what they need to work in technology-intense situations. For instance, they'll understand the problems resulting from theft of paper records, but also have the skills to understand and prevent electronic data loss.

Graduates of the WGU program are eligible to take the RHIA exam because the program is accredited by AHIMA. They can still work in a traditional hospital's medical record department, wrangling paper, but they will already have the skills and knowledge to deal with electronic records and information systems, which is where HIM is going. They would also be competitive for work with HIM software vendors -- coding software, electronic record software, and so forth.

I just looked at one of those programs and it was an eye-opener - I would be paying for many years--with interest!

[ In Reply To ..]
I was considering one of the all-purpose courses mentioned. I thought it sounded interesting until I looked at all of the non-coding subjects and got bored just looking at some of the subjects. Coding is barely addressed at all. The language (Communications: Essay, Research, Presentation, Math: College Math, College Algebra, Measurement and Geometry, Database Fundamentals, Arts and the Humanities, etc.) courses, and there are dozens of them that have little or nothing to do with coding, get more attention than anything, but the cost! I would be paying for many years, with interest, even with federal financial aid, which I don't think I'm eligible for anyway. Maybe after taking a coding course, passing the CCS exam, and getting a job, which is a more practical approach to me. Federal financial aid (Pell, GSL, etc.) come with a big price that you have to pay later, and there is nothing to say that after having learned all of those, that you would even be able to CODE when you got through with it. Right now I think taking on $3,000 per every 6 months (for years, and you don't really know how many years it will take you, in debt for years is not necessarily smart or common sense in today's world. Job One for me is always to get the skills I need to do the job I want. Get the extras later.

Yes, some of us just want to code - Already been "educated"

[ In Reply To ..]
Yes, some of us have had a college education and want to get down to the business of learning coding so that we can enter the field and start working, without saddling ourselves with a bunch of debt. A reasonably priced program that prepares one to pass the CCS and CPC exams is what many of us want.

That's fine! - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
If you only want to learn to code, that's fine! In that case, you need a program that is totally devoted to coding and that is known to prepare students successfully for both the CPC and CCS.

If you only want to work in a doctor's office, then you could get by with a course that only teaches outpatient.

The person who posted above, though, was replying to someone who was already taking a college program in business AND wanted to learn to code. He or she is already spending time and money on a degree that will be basically useless -- an associate's degree in "business" -- especially when you try to fit it into healthcare. It would be useless in healthcare. So would a 4-year degree in "business." (An MBA is valuable, but not an undergrad degree.)

The better plan in THAT situation, where you are already going for a 4-year degree, would be to go for a 4-year degree that is worth something. That would be a 4-year degree in HIM or, now, health informatics. You would want to do that through an AHIMA-accredited program like the one at WGU.

That person was already paying for a college degree, but was going to get one that wouldn't be very useful. A simple change to a business-related health informatics degree at WGU would give her a truly useful degree and one which would qualify her for the RHIA. Those lead directly to upper level jobs in healthcare. And you can still code with them, although the RHIA would allow her to advance into consulting, coding/compliance management, and remote coding opportunities much faster.

If I wanted to learn coding again, I'd do a straight coding course. If I wanted to do a full bachelor's again, I'd definitely go the health informatics route.

You really can't beat the WGU price, either. I looked at that program. It is very reasonable. It has all the "right" accreditations, too, apparently an excellent reputation (especially in IT, which is important for a degree in informatics) and it looks like it's set up to almost cater to remote online students.

I think you misunderstood that entire - Post

[ In Reply To ..]
I think you misunderstood something. The suggestion of WGU's informatics program was made for a person who was taking a generic business degree program already and wanting to learn coding. The person who responded thought that was not a good idea and suggested a better one.

WGU isn't "a coding" program. It is a 4-0 year college degree program leading to AHIMA's RHIA credential. It enables you to take a high-level administrative position in a healthcare organization. You could also code with it, but it doesn't limit you to that. For that person, the WGU program was a much better option. A business degree is useless, but an RHIA is spectacular.

Yes, it does include a lot of non-coding coursework because IT IS A FOUR YEAR DEGREE. That's why you can qualify for the RHIA at the end of it! The tuition for it is incredibly economical, especially considering that you can take as much as you can complete. You can finish faster at no additional cost. It's eligible for federal aid and they have scholarships, too.

That's a good thing for a motivated student. It's not intended for one of those MT-to-coder types who want a course they can work on if and when they feel like it, dragging it out for two or three years.

The cost of WGU was really cheap, too. In another response, a person was happy to recommend a course from a for-profit diploma mill in Pennsylvania. That course prepared students only for the CPC -- half of what coding entails -- and costs more than $18,000, but is apparently fabulous because you can get federal financial aid for it. The new federally required cost breakdown shows that even with Pell Grants and whatever else they have, students graduate with more than $10,000 in debt. In spite of that, I can guarantee that there will be a ton of people from here all clamoring to get into that school because they think it's such a hot deal!

This just amazes me. People here squawk about Andrews being soooo expensive at a flat $3800, with everything included, not even noticing that Andrews has a NO INTEREST payment plan. That's almost unheard of. You graduate owing little to nothing, making things much easier for that first job. The fact that they require a down-payment up front seems to rule them out -- people would rather go into debt for decades with a program that prepares them for who-knows-what than scrape up that down payment. But they think a course that offers half of what Andrews teaches at more than 4 times the cost and which leaves students with a debt that is two and a half times the entire cost of Andrews is some kind of incredible bargain.

If you're not interested in a 4-year bachelor's degree with RHIA potential, then WGU is not for you. That other person seemed to be on that track already, so I think that's why the WGU program was suggested.

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