A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

This is the way VR is supposed to be - Snow Bunny

Posted: Nov 20, 2009

The video is an excellent demonstration of the Medical version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking when you have the correct sound card and microphone, you dictate correctly, and enough time and effort has been put into training it as well as it. Some of what you'll see also demonstrate the use of macros and templates.

http://www.voicerecognition.com/dns8/dragon_naturallyspeaking_medical.html

Now you know why the product is so expensive.

vr - wow

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That is fabulous. I have never seen that in action before.

Wow! This is heaven! I have never gotten such a clear audio!..sm - vrvr

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There were only a couple of IMO incorrect and inconsistent commas dictated, but otherwise not a single grammar, spelling or typing error.
Wow! Great!

And the inserted spell check for the medication, great!

I guess this is only for demonstrations for prospective VR software buyers.

If VR gets so perfected overall, this will make us MTs obsolete!

incorrect and inconsistent commas dictated - Snow Bunny

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Without going back to listen again, it would have occurred either because the physician indicated where to put the punctuation, or they had the "automatically insert punctuation" feature selected (not recommended).

does it matter if one types 20wpm or 130wpm? NO...nm - tmrv

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nm

typing speed doesn't come into the equation - Snow Bunny

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In fact, it's the best thing to have if you're ever unable to type (i.e. carpal tunnel surgery) but still need to work.

I've used the product for typing tests, and I can dictate around 140 wpm with about 99% accuracy.

I know, fast typing has very little to do with VR, try to explain this to VRhere!!...nm - vrvr

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nm

See enclosed - item

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So many on here say you can be slow and do VR. Is there really anyone on here that transcribes slowly at a rate say even 75 wpm and does well at VR, making $20 or above an hour?

I bet there are a LOT of those. When you say...sm - ???

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'even 70wpm,' do you think this is low?
This is average, not that low.

If one types 70wpm, then it gets to 100wpm or even more if you apply your expanders!

This person will definitely do very well on VR.

Do you want to show an

What is the aim of this "survey?"

Does the OP want to prove that only superfast typists can do VR? This is NOT so.

A typing speed of 50wpm is enough to do very well on VR.

Funny, sounds like those tapes supposedly made by - the real doctors, my friend tried this and

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she was trying to use it for VR, spent a lot of money on it and never could use. She said extremely hard to master.

extremely hard to master, how? - Snow Bunny

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If you're just going to do straight dictation (without the bells and whistles of macros and templates), then it's very easy to master, and I'm no brain when it comes to stuff like this. But if you want to achieve what the demo did, then you have to put the time and effort into it.

To me, something that's extremely hard to master would be Instant Text. I gave up on that in about 1/2 hour.

I think she meant that it is for the dictating doctors..sm - str+vr

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extremely hard to master to dictate in such a way that the computer can produce such a perfect draft document.

No, you cannot speak for me, did not mean the doctors, meant - the person trying to use this

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I have not spoken with this lady in awhile- going to see if I can IM her tonight and find out why she had such a time with it. She would have stayed on voice recognition if she had been able to use Dragon. I know she bought it. Will see if I can reach her and might be back in a few.

well, if it is so difficult, then the doctors who use it are heroes!..nm - does not matter

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nm

Doctors DO NOT use it, the person doing VR uses it - Unreal

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d

Snow Bunny, another thing, the person I know said not able to use - at her company. sometimes the

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companies do not allow you to use. Maybe you know the answer why, snowbunny.

I certainly do know the answer - Snow Bunny

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A lot of companies don't allow you to use it, because they don't consider it transcription. To them, it's re-dictating.

The fact is, you're getting paid for what appears on the screen (or page) and NOT how it gets there. If it doesn't matter which abbreviation expander you use, it shouldn't matter what output device you use to accomplish your job.

Which is why you don't volunteer that information in the first place.

the doctors use it to dictate into it...nm - does not matter

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nm

So let me get this right, the transcriptionist buys it and takes it to the hospital, - office, whatever to get the people to

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dictate into it? Are you for real? The MT buys it so hardly think that is the way this works.

How did you come to this conclusion? Don't make me laugh!..sm - does not matter

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This video is a marketing advert for selling VR software to hospitals, clinics, doctors and MTSOs.

The dictated report is downloaded to the MT for corrections.

Starting laughing - Snow Bunny

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The video is fairly accurate, which I speak from personal experience using the product. There are two ways of doing this:

1. You can dictate directly to the screen (which the demo shows), or
2. You can dictate into a recording device and then upload the voice file(s) directly into Dragon. The program will then transcribe it on the screen. That's the one that requires the editing, and the doctor can do that.

This is not hospital dictation, which is more complicated than what occurs in an office setting.

If a doctor can write the notes in a chart by longhand, and many still do, they don't need a MT to correct their dictation.

that is incorrect - Snow Bunny

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The transcriptionist who works at home buys it and uses it at their home (like I do).

Dragon replaces your keyboard, no more and no less. Instead of typing what the doctor is dictating ... you speak it. Abbreviations are included with the deal. Using Dragon I can say "UMCR" (without the quotes) and get Urine microalbumin/creatinine ratio. I can also say something like "Joseph physical" and Dr. Joseph's normal physical exam will pop up on the screen. And so forth ...

The product is not for everyone, but I can attest to the fact that it definitely is beneficial to those who have medical problems which make using a keyboard somewhat uncomfortable.

Oh, I knew that, just being facetious - because of another post

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It definitely sounds like those doctors we used for play tapes back years ago. It was definitely not for that coworker of mind and plus the fact, for whatever reason, she was told could not use in her work. Will have to find that out later when she gets back in touch with me. Anyway, everyone have a good time. My VR is so good now I would not want to use but others might be able to and want to.

The demonstration shows what the dictating person - does not matter

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sees on the screen. When the dictation is finished, the draft document is downloaded as draft to the MT for editing.

So, BOTH, the doctor and the MT 'use' the macro and template, not only the MT.

I do not believe that the clients pay to the MTSOs the same rate for straight transcription and VR.

you're information is incorrect - Snow Bunny

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You're thinking of the VR used in hospitals, which is something completely different. It does so poorly because it's not being trained, constantly and continuously. That process never stops.

The demo is 100% accurate in terms of using Dragon Medical Suite. That's him dictating. That's his words appearing on the screen, as they are dictated. That's what you would see if you walked into his office while he was dictating.

Not so unreal - sm

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It is marketed to anyone who will buy it on the front or back end, including clinics and hosptials on the front end. A local clinic in my area is currently implementing it for the physicians to use and the MTs to edit.

Doctors DO use it - Snow Bunny

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But I'm referring to the ones in private practice, not working for a hospital. Coupled with the EMR technology and many do just fine.

ah yes, the dictating doctor - Snow Bunny

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Dragon won't work for them UNLESS they change their dictation style, and the program is very specific about this.

The sample that I posted is a fairly accurate representation of the product but that comes after several hundred hours worth of dictating correctly and also proper training. You're not going to get that right out of the box, so to speak.

To Snow Bunny - vr gal

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So, what does something like this cost? It must be horribly expensive. Is it even feasible for us working gals and guys who don't make a ton of money? I am curious about this. I watched the video and was surprised at how accurate the typing was as it followed along with the dictator.

cost of Dragon - Snow Bunny

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The demo is the Medical Suite, which currently costs (I think) around $1,500, which is just for the product. Throw in a good sound card and microphone, and you're looking at another $300-700.

You don't need the Medical Suite to use the product, but you'll give up the bells and whistles. It depends upon your specific needs and the kind of transcription you're doing. I used the Medical Suite for acute care transcription but currently use the Preferred version because I'm only working on clinic dictation.

VR video.................. - vrmt

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I almost assume that this video is a production of a VR software company and it is not a doctor who is dictating, but a VR software vendor for marketing purposes.

It sounds like - sm

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practice dictation an MT school would put out with an actor reading. Majority of dictators are not going to go that slow and use punctuation. But, if they did then they wouldnt need MEs to clean up.

We know that's how they sell these systems, we also know does not work!! - wise1

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nm

if it doesn't work - Snow Bunny

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How am I averaging 450+ lph at 99% accuracy with a fast dictator?

The reason the hospital-based VR doesn't work is because nobody is training it, which is a MUST with this type of product. Not using hospital-based VR I'm shooting blind, but I'm guessing that the principles are similar. Doctor dictates and words appear on the screen. From there, you get the document with the original voice file and clean things up. The corrected document is returned and the report is complete.

And that's the killer. Nobody is training the product with each mistake. In the hospital-based system, when the doctor says "below-knee amputation" and what appears on the screen is "baloney amputation," all the transcriptionist editor is doing is correcting the mistake on the document, but nobody is correcting it within the system. Nobody is telling the VR system that "THIS" (below-knee amputation) is the correct words to use. So, if nobody is doing that, the next time the dictator says the phrase, it's going to repeat the same error, over and over again.

Look at it from a different angle. You work in a hospital and you're doing a tough dictator. There's nobody around to help you, so you muddle through, doing your best. QA goes over your work and corrects your errors ... BUT ... they don't return things to you. You don't get a chance to read the errors and listen to the dictation again, so you can "train" your ears to know when the doctor says THIS he or she means THAT. Without that bit of information, you're probably going to make the same mistakes over and over again.

That's why the hospital-based VR systems are not as good as they could be. Nobody is property training them.

Hope that explains it a bit better.

whose duty is it to train the system? - vrvr

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nm

Yours - Answers

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n

to Answers: If you READ Snow Bunny's last post..sm - vrvr

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'If it does not work..,' you would UNDERSTAND WHY I asked this question!

Go and read her post

'If it does not work,'

then post again, if you know the ANSWER!

From what I am reading - Answers

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from other place, people are saying how much time it takes for them to train, most saying they just do not have the time and how much it costs. I have a friend who TRIED to use by the way.

A friend tried to use it? How and in what capacity? Dr? MT? MTSO? Just for fun?..nm - vrvr

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nm

A fellow transcriptionist, just like we are here - Answers

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This was a lady who has rheumatoid arthritis in her hands and was having a terrible time trying to type after so many years. I have known her now for probably 30 years and she is in her 50s now. She bought it as her job was all staight then. She could have done VR at my job but did not like. Not everyone likes it. Well, long story short she bought Dragon and tried to use for some time, said very time consuming and finally took a job inhouse not transcribing. She could not type anymore due to the extreme pain and yet trained in MTing. Her hands are not a laughing matter to her I am sure.

for Answers: How could she use Dragon VR software being an MT?..sm - vrvr

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Could you explain this t me? A doctor uses VR software to DICTATE into it, the VR software creates a draft document that is downloaded to the MT who edits it.

How can an MT use a VR software being at the back-end of the VR system?
Can you explain this to me or are you just 'throwing myths - hearsay' around?

I asked this already once and you did - or could not - answer this.

People HEAR so many things, spread it around and have actually no idea how it works. It was probably, as I already said, an MTSOs.

All hearsay!

Doubting Thomas and I donâ��t know why - Answers

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This is a used to be coworker of mine and she is on my IM list. I have sent her 2 messages this wkend and she has yet to answer. This was a person who had arthritis in her hands and she was trying to work. She was trained and did not want to give it up but she did not want to do VR as she did not like. I can only tell you what she told me and that was about 2 years ago. She bought the machine and was trying to train it herself and she finally went back inhouse and took job not related to transcription. She could not straight type because of her hands. Why would I even care to throw a myth around if that? What is wrong with all you people? You seem just to be a miserable lot who when people are trying to explain it has to be something underhanded or the like? I never used it, never tried, do not know what it looks like, only know what she told me and why and by the way she said she was told COULD NOT use in her job. She was trying to train ON HER END. I guess you could say hearsay if that makes you feel happy.

You have your stories wrong, by the way - Answers

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Better ask Snow Bunny about this but this person I know was using on her END, not a doctor dictating into it for her. She bought it and was trying to train. Just ask Snow Bunny as you seem to doubt all others.

Dragon is a VR software. This can ONLY be... - omg

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used for DICTATING by somebody WHO HAS SOMETHING TO DICTATE INTO IT.

Then an MT will EDIT what is dictated into it.

We understand this all, but what your friend was trying to do, if she even knew what she was trying to do, did not work because she did not understand what to do with this 'machine.'

1. Physicians DICTATE into it
2. VR (Dragon)PRODUCES document
3. MT EDITS document.

Did your friend want to DICTATE into it?

I am not a doubting Thomas, but what you are telling us here about your friend is nonsense.
Anyway she gave up after she realized that her way does not work.

Whatever you want to believe, do that ok? - Answers

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If you say nonsense, that is how it will be. End of my story.

SAYS WHO? Please explain why it is - MT

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the duty of the MT to train the system. More UNPAID work to lay on the MT? It should be trained by the people profiting from it - and it ain't us, for sure. They should hire technicians to do this. Who is paying the MT to train the system in order to cut their wages? They (or you, if you think thta way) must think we have an "Idiot, kick me some more!" sign posted on our backsides.

Have you read the thread, I donâ��t use it, donâ��t care to, - others inquiring about it

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So there are some other there who would be willing to buy and try training it. I have no idea about buying, I donâ��t care if you or anyone buys, I have no interest in it whatsoever, just passing along what a coworker of mine tried to do and she was retraining it trying to save her typing job. Naysayers all over the board doubting that a transcriptionist would train in the first place. Next.

as an end user, me - Snow Bunny

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Let's say I've done all my dictation for the day and now I'm proofing. Now, I'm a MT editor.

The editor for a service, to my understanding, listens to the voice file and reads the document, correcting errors on the screen. The corrected document is returned to the service.

In my situation, I don't listen to the voice file again (already transcribed) unless I see an error on the screen and I can't make heads or tails of it. In that situation, I listen to just that section of the voice file to get the correct information. I'll highlight a series of words on either side, open the Correction Dialog box, either choose or type in the correct words, close the dialog box), and that's it. That's all there is to it. The next time I say those words, Dragon should transcribe them correctly ... because ... I told Dragon "You made an error. This is what I want." --- And the more I do it, the more accurate the product will become.

It's what I said before. If you have a child, you need to discipline the child. Telling your best friend about the problem you're having, and not telling the child, is not going to solve your problem. In fact, the older the child gets, the harder it will be.

The same with hospital dictation system. No training = errors and more errors.

Aren't we, VR editors, doing this with all VR draft documents...sm - omg

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when we are editing? Whatever VR software is used?

Does Dragon really 'learn better' than the other VR software programs?
This I DOUBT.

Actually, one can try this with any kind of VR software, buy it, redictate, edit.

In addition you have to redictate each report.

Obviously it did not work, otherwise it would have been used and not abandoned.

So, don't call me a 'doubting Thomas.' I only applied my smart judgment, and your 'redictating advertisement' turned out to be a lemon.

Snow Bunny, please beware!! - VR lover

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Most have been listening patiently to your postings up until now. Be aware, it is going to be said you are suit, mgm, plant and so on because you happen to like Dragon and made it work for you. Please be aware- I have told you.

this is a marketing tool to sell the Dragon VR software...sm - vrvr

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This is almost perfect, except for the sometimes incorrectly dictated commas.
There are also other VR softwares and every vendor says his is the best.

This is for demonstration and it should also work in the same way when doctors are dictating. But It does NOT because they are either not trained enough on it, or the doctors do not upkeep the maintenance of their dictating equipment, are bad and sloppy dictators, the audio is bad, etc.....

This is exactly what doctors use when they are doing VR on the 'Dragon VR software.'

What Snow Bunny says that MTs can make use of it, this I hear for the first time:
How should this work? Are the MTs re-dictating it with their voice? Then they have still to edit it.
Maybe she is referring to MTSOs.

"Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10 Preferred is almost universally regarded in reviews as the best voice recognition software, with the potential for 99 percent accuracy (though reviews say 97 percent is more realistic)....."

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