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Requirements of an MM coding job - sm

Posted: Mar 15, 2014

Here's what's required to get hired as a coder for MM right now:

CCS required; RHIA, RHIT preferred. Bachelors or Associates degree preferred. Must have a minimum of 3 years of related coding experience; 5-7 years preferred.

These are pretty high standards, and yet some here would have us believe that MModal's own training will be *sub par*. I'm really getting kind of sick of the naysayers. Good luck to everyone on your test!

Agree with you. - RHIA

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Have to agree with you. Those are MM's requirements because that is what hospitals require of contracting companies.

Seeing how desperate some facilities are getting to - cut costs, withness their compliance in SM

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in cutting MT pay to minimum wage levels, why wouldnt a facility agree to lower coding costs by outsourcing the easy, repetitive stuff. Send it to a company that has "trained" lower level coders who would be able to handle the easy stuff. A facility could save millions of dollars that way.

With MT, the upper management heard "save money" and they jumped on that low MT wage bandwagon. With this, they will hear the same thing and jump just as high.

FACILITIES CANNOT USE UNQUALIFIED CODERS. - Please listen to me.

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And you only THINK that MM will be providing less training because someone here planted that thought in your brain.

They won't do that because it is impossible to do it. Even if they could, their services would be worthless.

They CANNOT because they MUST use qualified, i.e., CREDENTIALED coders. This is a requirement.

wrong - anon

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I know of two hospitals whose entry level coders do not have to be certified -- they have to have coding experience or certificate of completion from a coding program. They never get hired -- they are always beaten out by certified coders, but to say that they have to hire certified coders must be inaccurate, as that isn't how it is written in their job description.

High standards - Not ready for prime time

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I know that MM has high standards for coders and I applaud anyone who wants to take this on. Perhaps the pay will be good, but do expect an element of production coding to be involved after you are trained; being at home that seems the most equitable way to pay people, just as it did for MT. What I think is happening is that they are anticipating some new contracts and can't find enough qualified people to fill the positions, hence trying to recruit MTs. Know this, however - not everyone can code. Passing an anatomy test is no guarantee of success in the coding world. Many people equate coding to watching paint dry, so if MT bores you now, keep that in mind. The other thing that I really don't understand. Most of the MTs in this forum were so anti-coding: It's impossible to get hired, your jobs are going away due to outsourcing and automation, yada, yada, yada; I am wondering what happened to change that mindset. Anyway, kudos to those of you who passed the test and good luck. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next. Frankly, I'm also a bit envious. Having an apprenticeship in coding is a golden opportunity. I had to do it through more traditional methods and looked for a job for a very long time. Best wishes to all. In response to the person who said that entry level coders do not have to be certified - perhaps. My facility will hire them but stipulate certification within a year of hire, they are also very strict about CECs. Also, certified coders are paid $2.00 more per hour. You say that non-certified people never get hired - doesn't that tell you something?

A requirment from who? The facilities? Unless it is a law, - I think it certainly could be done. SM

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If the facilities or even the insurance is making the rule that only credentialed coders can code, what is to stop them from changing that rule to coders with a certificate from a community college or such can code the simple repetitive stuff. If changing the rules a bit can save them money, put more money in their pockets, that is very strong incentive to make those changes. Unless it is a Golden Rule or a law, I am pretty sure it can be changed.

People used to think you have to have college course to be an MT. That has changed. I think coding is every bit as open to change

Really? That is kind of a far-fetched stretch. - Sm

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But, you know, if your knowledge of this field and the nature of the work is so limited that you think something like that could happen, you should NOT go into coding because you don't understand what it is.

Thinking that it could happen fast enough to benefit one company, and at the behest of their nefarious workings, no less, is just plain conspiracy-theorist thinking. It is impossible to argue against that kind of thing, so I won't even try.

Please enlighten us - anon

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Where is the law that coders have to be certified?

IMO, this is not far-fetched at all. I think one has limited vision - who would think this could not happen. SM

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I bet telephone operators thought change would never come to them, and I am sure MTs 15 years ago, thought change would never happen to their field either.

It's called wishful thinking SM - anon

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The posts are an exhibit of people plugging their ears and singing lalalalala.

This has the same beginning as what happened to MT. So to think the middle and end of the story is going to be different is to be willfully blind.

And some people are just flapping their wings. - Singing bwak bwak bwak.

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Some people have actually thought this through, thanks. Good grief. So nice that everyone is "so concerned for the naÃ¯ve ones" though.

One of the requirements to sit for the CCS - anon

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Is that you either have a professional certification and a year experience OR two years coding experience. So evidently there are OTHER coders coding without certification.

Try a CCA, CPC, or RHIT - nm

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nm

The CCA is essentially a worthless credential - anon

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that employers don't recognize. The RHIT is impossible to get without going to a school accredited by AHIMA. It is an Associate's Degree. As stated before, MModal is not a college. So that leaves the CPC. That's a possibility, however according to the posted job requirements for MModal, that is not a certification they accept for their coders. So, unless some concessions are made, you will be working as coders for MModal and you won't qualify as coders according to their job description. That is part of the confusion.

Arguing in circles - Again

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I am not going to argue in circles with you. This post ends it, Anon.

I am going to explain this so that others don't fall into your trap.

Above, someone pointed out that MM requires an RHIA, RHIT or CCS. Someone pointed out that this was the requirement of the facilities. Someone pointed out that the CCS requires 2 years of experience, so SOMEWHERE there are uncredentialed coders working. I pointed out that they might not be uncredentialed at all--they could have a CCA, a CPC, or RHIT.

You say that the CCA is a worthless credential (a tidbit you picked up on this board) and now find all this very confusing. OK.

For the benefit of everyone else, MM requires those credentials for new hire coders. They do so because their clients require it. MM cannot train you to the RHIA or RHIT because those are 4 and 2-year college programs. They can easily train you to a CPC. They can train you to a CCA almost as easily. They can, in fact, train you to the CCS, and given the 6-month length of that program, with 700+ contact hours, have enough time to do so.

But what about the 2 years of experience required for the CCS??? The truth of the matter -- which no one appears to have gone to the AHIMA website to discover -- is that you can qualify for the CCS 3 ways. One is a course containing certain material. Second is another coding credential and 1 year of experience. Third is 2 years of experience.

Also if note is the fact that these requirements are only a year old. Prior to that, you could take the CCS even if you had no training at all. What you see at facilities today is what occured under the old rules.

So, the MM program is just fine. There is ample opportunity for credentialing within reasonable timeframes.

Wrong again. You can take the CCS with a credential - anon

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Plus one year experience. Or two years WITHOUT a credential. The RHIT, CPC or CCA would qualify you to take it within ONE YEAR as they are all professional credentials. The two years are without ANY CREDENTIAL AT ALL. Which means there are coders coding without any credential AT ALL. I have known for years the CCA is a worthless credential for most intents, as do any other employed coders. The confusion on my part is why you won't show me the law that says coders have to be certified, and that it is illegal for MModal to have uncertified coders working for them. That is all anyone is asking.

No one said it was a law - sm

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It is a necessity.

If you don't know why, then look it up online. Do some of your own homework for a change. Maybe yoy will believe it then

The bit about the credentials that you cited ... that was in my post. Is that where you picked it up??

It's a necessity because you can't get hired without it - anon

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Unless you find someone willing to hire you without one. Which happens on occasion.

Sorry, tangential thinking again - Talking about facilities, not for coders

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Not going to answer that because you changed the topic.

Not going to answer because it wasn't a question - anon

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Look, I've been around this industry A LONG time. So if you want to treat me like a newbie, fine, go to it. I know coders who have been coding since the dinosaurs roamed the earth, without certification. They are amazing coders. So there is no law that they have to be certified. However the truth of the matter is that they would not get hired today, without certification. MModal can train whatever they want to train, and prepare them to be certified, or not. How lovely it would be if they taught the AAPC course -- but they could train entirely differently and that would be their prerogative.

You said it yourself... - sm

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You just said it yourself ..."However the truth of the matter is that they would not get hired today, without certification."

That is because facilities need certified coders.

I am finished with this discussion.

With my point being they haven't lost their jobs - for not being certified

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So at least some facilities have uncertified coders working for them. I too, am done. There seems to be a lot of misinformation being thrown around as fact.

A necessity according to who? Whoever says it is - a necessity, can just as easily SM

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say it is not a necessity. Whoever decides it is needed, can just as easily decide it is not needed.

Claiming anything is a necessity, is a very subjective thing. It used to be a necessity to have an operator to be able to make a phone call.

And I have no "trap" set for anyone to fall into - anon

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To try to claim that anyone who disagrees with you has any malice or ulterior motive is,quite simply,wrong. Many coders are uncertain how you can turn a transcriptionist into a coder in 3 months of education, when most coding programs are at least three times that in length.

No, most coding programs are not 3x that length - nm

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NM

Unless... - Not ready for prime time

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Unless, at the end of the apprenticeship, MM requires everyone to sit for the CCS, which seems to be what they require for their coders. Are you guaranteed a job after going through the program? I work for an outpatient facility on site, but my thoughts on contract coding are that a person really has to know what they are doing - you could be working for more than one facility and it could be inpatient coding, which does require different/additional knowledge than someone who codes ambulatory care. Also, I think that being new and being at home is going to be difficult. Hopefully, MM will have knowledgeable staff available during all shifts to offer help and answer questions. When it means your client getting paid, it has to be accurate. If not, payment can be held up for weeks and months. Sequencing, modifiers, Medicare coding, over-coding, compliance RACs, etc., etc., there are so many factors, plus the transition from ICD-9 to ICD-10, you will probably need training in both code sets. As new MTs, even those of us who attended training programs/schools, can probably remember how much we learned at our first job and how it has been an ongoing process. Coding is like that, even more so. Anyone anti-AAMT or anti-ADHI needs to get over that because you will be answering to a credentialing agency when you become certified and paying annual membership dues. You will also need X-number of CE credits to keep your certification active. If you want to work for other employers, I see no way around the certification process to be competitive in the job market. I agree, it is all very confusing. At least it stopped people from whining about their crap MT jobs for a while.

Not true - I got OJT

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at my hospital, became an expert coder and passed my RHIT. I never took the coding test as such, ever. What is going on here is... MM has high standards to hire, but not necessarily the same standards to train. I think it is a bait and switch operation, I cannot figure out what is in it for them.

How did you qualify for the RHIT? - Wondering

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Nm

The RHIT qualifies for coding - nomsg

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Nomsg

You will have less than a year's experience - anon

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So you already won't meet this criteria as a coder. I think this has been beaten to death. Everyone test if you want to, and those that are accepted can let everyone else know the training plan.

You dont have to participate in this thread, but I for one, - enjoy discussing this with my SM

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sista MM MTs. When you get a lot of great minds discussing something, points can be brought up that you might not have thought about yourself.

And in a situation that hasnt happened to MM MTs before, the more points brought up, the better decision every MT can make for herself.

Personally, I would rather ask experienced coders - nm

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Nm

From what I have seen on the coding board, coders - dont think coding could ever be SM

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sent offshore. They seem to think it is the holy grail of medical records and can only be done one way and that way can never, ever be changed. And you must remember this is MM, not your usual coding school. I think comparing what MM training could be against, say Andrews, is comparing apples to automobiles, not even oranges, they could be so different.

I think coders can tell you have things have been up to now, but with MM entering the playing field, nuttin is gonna stay the same.

That is off topic - Nothing to do with this decision

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Nm

That is what we thought too... - that MT would never be sent offshore

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but it was... they didn't get a good result, but somebody saved money, somebody made a lot of money and they don't care if the work product is good or not. Seemingly the hospitals don't seem to care either, and even though coding is directly related to documentation that MTs provide, maybe hospitals will provide for this too. Coding via data mining has long been a concept... a scary one too! We will just have to wait and see.

You won't qualify for the RHIT or RHIA - Anon

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Those are Associates and Bachelors degrees, respectively. MModal is not a college.

I think the point was MM has high standards - for hiring coders. (nm)

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x

Do you even work for MM? - Wondering

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?

Actually that bolsters the theory of - McCoders

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Those requirements are heavy duty. Do you think that 3 months training program will achieve that level of proficiency? Do you think MModal thinks that?

The job description you posted makes me even more convinced this is a "coder-lite" program.

No, it does not bolster anything - Coding Instructor

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The training program is entirely long enough to get students into the CCS range by the end of internship.

The resume screening and A&P test is intended to weed out those who would have little likelihood of learning enough to get there.

Many coding programs are far shorter, yet still manage to produce credentiable coders.

Coding Instructor - Question for you

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as long as you are here...speaking of the A/P test. What kind of score is considered a good score? What kind of score range do you usually see?

I am not a patient person, so waiting until next week is killing me. I was not the one who scored the 98, I was in that lower high 80s-low 90s range.

No one can know that - at least not yet

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No one can know that without seeing the test, and definitely not without seeing the scores, or without knowing enough past scores to do some calculations on them.

I'm sorry, what? - anon

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The question was to someone who said they were a coding instructor.

A coding instructor who mentioned A/P testing, so I assumed that an instructor would have given this test or at least seen the scores for this test many, many times before. My question was what is an average-ish score in THE PAST, in general.

My post was CRYSTAL CLEAR, asking a question about their PAST experience as an instructor.

I didn't ask about the MModal test specifically, duh, how would some random person posting on here have any clue about that? Also, MModal doesn't even know the test scores yet. The deadline is Monday, they probably won't even look at the list until at least Tuesday.

I'm not an idiot. I asked a valid question if the poster is indeed a coding instructor. She/he would have experience giving this test and have some idea what an average score is.

You assume that I must have given THIS test? - Many times???

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Seriously? How the heck am I even supposed to know what test it is? Or, more to the point, is it possible that you think there is only ONE A&P test in existence???

Okay, gotcha - my mistake

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It wasn't a single test, they gave several different versions. It was very similar to all of the A/P tests online. There is not a lot of variation in these things, thus the question.

Sorry I was thinking at a college level here, not an "instructor" level. Colleges and professors always have that knowledge. In fact colleges often give those average scores to inform people of the scores necessary to get into a program.

Sorry, I didn't mean to take an abstract concept that was over your head. My apologies. Didn't mean to upset you.

You still do not understand - Coding Instructor

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The average score on any exam will depend on the abilities of the population taking the test.

In a college situation, students aspiring to certain programs will have had A&P already, thus can be expected to score at a certain level.

A group of MTs will have widely varying backgrounds, ranging from just med terms to graduate level anatomy and physiology courses and more. The range of scores will be wider, unless the test is at a level that fits all.

In any event, scores are usually transformed in some fashion for comparability, questions that seem problematic are often removed, and so forth.

And I am not going to speculate on what a good score is simply because doing so would be hateful. I am not going to destroy anyone's self confidence in that way. You cannot bait me into doing it.

I am going to try real hard not to say what I'd really like to say about you, too, but I am not so concerned about the outcome when I do. You need to hear it, but you won't believe it anyway.

Why do you keep answering? - They just wanna argue-nm

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NM

No one wants to "argue" - geez

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If you don't like what people say, that's perfectly fine but because people disagree with you doesn't mean they want to "argue."

I hate how some people think their view on everything is aboslutely 100% the only valid view point.

Also, how you try to belittle others and shut them down with snide, rude, little remarks in an effort to diminish and invalidate them.

It's kind of immature really.

And, oh yeah, someone else actually comprehended - the question and answered it

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So not sure where you get the arguing thing.

The "coding instructor" didn't understand the question, someone else did and answered it. No arguing there.

LOL, okie dokie then - Not holier than thou. NM

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xx

Sorry the "coding instructor" could not answer you - Anon

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I took a two hour version of an A&P exam a few weeks ago for ICD-10 training at my job. What your employer would require could be different, however we had to get a 92. That was considered passing for us. So there is a ballpark number for you. That's why I'm telling everyone they are doing really well -- I feel like they are. Of course, if they are taking the top 60 -- it isn't going to matter how high you score, as long as you can be in that top 60. Hope that can provide some perspective, if not an answer for you. :(

Thank you!! That basically answered my question - anon

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Exactly what I was curious about, actually.

obviously the MM scenario is different but it does give insight into what is typically expected, which is what I was curious about.

I am a numbers person, sorry I can't help digging into statistical information. Maybe I should go into accounting and blow this Popsicle stand altogether.

No, it did not answer your question - sm

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Glad you think so, though. If you take some math, you will learn why.

Uh, sure, okay - anon

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I appreciate your ability to read my mind.

It actually did answer MY question, perhaps your interpretation of my question was not answered.

I wasn't looking for some ABSOLUTE number. The 92 the other poster mentioned actually backs up some research I did on the internet. There is actually a range on this basic entry level A/P test that falls between 86% to 92%.

Is that an absolute equation of knowable statistics? No. It is an extremely generalized number.

No need to insult me, unless of course it makes you feel superior, and then please, carry on. It doesn't phase me in the least.

As far as she's concerned, they answered her question - it was the type of answer - SM

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She was looking for & satisfied her curiosity. Your post is extremely rude and insulting and you sound like a miserable bully. I wish the best for all the MTs going for this coding program, as long as it works for them, that's all matters.

but that assumes that once - training is completed sm

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That assumes that once training is completed, that's it, no more learning. That's just not the case. As you go through apprenticeship and on to a job as a coder you continue to learn, just as we maybe started out as level 1 MTs and moved up as we gained experience. In fact, certified coders HAVE to keep learning to keep up their CEU credits.

All true - anon

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IF, MModal is actually going to train you to be a "real" coder. However, the plan could be to retain a lower level of coder, like the tier system they already have in place for MT.

That is the biggest question mark in all of this and it is a question that won't be answered for many months.

All of our pondering is meaningless, but fun if you like to play intellectual games. We shall all see by the end of summer how this plays out.

I am somewhat pessimistic because I have been an MT for 20 years or so and have seen nothing good happen for about 10 of those years in our industry. However, deep down I hope this is a roaring success and they offer the training class again this fall.

Please stop with the "lower level of coder" business - Coding Instructor

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There is no way to train a "lower level" of coder. There is no purpose to it.

Some may enjoy this so-called "meaningless intellectual exercise", but it is negative, mean-spirited, and destructive. It is so because half the people who read it cannot tell that the alleged "facts" in it are false.

There are some here whose future livelihood depends on this opportunity. I am not sure why some want to deter them from that with falsehoods.

OMG, so funny - anon too

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If there is a person on this board who is incapable of understanding a game of what-if or a reasonable discussion of possibilities, they probably should be working at McDonald's and certainly not having people's very lives in their hands with the work they do.

I, personally, hold my colleagues in much higher esteem than that. There are some very smart posters on this board on all sides of this question. I think they can figure things out just fine.

I think there have been many people who posed very valid questions and concerns.

Asking questions is not being negative. It is being intelligent and assuming those around you are intelligent as well.

academic discussions are one thing - misinformation is another

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saying that MM's training will be sub par, that the coders turned out will be lower level, that they will be ineligible for credentialing, is just plain misinformation.

Wow. - Stunned

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by your hostility. Do you always think in absolutes? even when that isn't what anyone has said.

There is no "misinformation." Every single post was qualified with some variation on the words "I am just speculating here" or "I wonder."

Misinformation is what you are doing right now by twisting what people said but mostly what they DIDN'T say.

well you stun - easily then

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The problem is that the comments about sub par training, lower level coders, not being enough training for certification, are all because "It's MModal." Because it's MModal, this is a scam. Because it's MModal, this can't be any good. Because it's MModal, this will turn out badly. And I disagree with you that people are putting these ideas forward as opinions only.

Oh, well not in my case. I actually really like MModal - so subtract me from that

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MModal has actually been super to me. I LOVE my supervisor, love my accounts, make decent money.

All my pondering and wondering, is based on making an informed decision, if my score gets me in the program.

I like reading all of the questions and information from coders, but then again I like a good debate, until people start to get nasty and personal in their insults that is.

okay well I like discussions - that are based on facts

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I really don't enjoy "what if" discussions because to me it's like worrying about stuff that hasn't happened yet so what I'm going to do here is just walk away.

Well, that is the difference then - some of us love what-if

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If we can have that understanding and not resort to nasty personal insults, as has been done here, then we should all be good.

Participate in the discussions you like and agree with.

I dont like it because it is immature and silly. - Kind of pointless, ya know?

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NM

Pointless? Yeah, maybe. But a fun intellectual game - sort of like watching Ancient Aliens

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You know they are CRAZY but it's fun to play the what if game, well for some of us. yeah, it's pointless, but their being a point is, well, beside the point.

Some people are just very concrete absolute thinkers, nothing wrong with that. Some people are dreamers and what-iffers, also nothing wrong with that.

By the way, "immature" was that really necessary? - anon

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I so hate closed minds and people who think there is only ONE way to be in life and that is their way.

So happy I am not that anal and controlling.

the immature comment was - not from me

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I'm the one who said I was bowing out. I'm not the one who called it immature.

Right, my reply was right below the one with - immature in the tag line. NM

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xx

LOL! that is so true - SM

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When I first read your post, I read it to say:

'It's like worrying about what might happen, so what I'm going to do here is walk away.'

As in the person worrying about the what if's just giving up and walking away without even making a go for it, which is self-defeat and happens a lot in this world.

But when I re-read it, I realized you were saying that you were going to walk away from this discussion because of all the what if's; either way, I agree with your post.

But you did use the phrase "lower-level coder" or at - least someone with ur

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View point did. So there was no twisting of words there. And for the record, there is no such thing as a "low-level coder"; that's just demeaning and there's nothing intellectual about that at all.

PS - Not the previous poster, just an observer.

There ARE levels of coding - Anon

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Your coder I is usually an entry level coder, just beginning, usually doing outpatient coding. Your coder II is your more experienced and educated coder, generally, does inpatients and makes more. Your charge master is a coder that is even more educated and experienced usually than the coder II. Why do you keep saying there are no levels of coding? The CPC is not as valued as the CCS.

I SAID THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LOWER-LEVEL CODER - here is the difference..sm

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An entry level coder is someone just begining and they are referred to as either that or "an outpatient coder" or whatever type of coding they do.

Never in the real world will you hear someone referred to as a low-level coder unless they're trying to be snarky or insulting on the sly.

And let me also add that I have worked in the hospital setting for years and have seen coders come in straight out of school and get trained to do the exact same jobs as someone that had been there 10-20 years. So being defined as entry-level could depend on where you work. Either way, I've never heard of anyone being defined as a low-level anything for that matter.

Here's a good example: I have a friend who just got - her coding certificate..sm

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About 6 months ago. Do you think it would be appropriate for me to refer to her as a low-level coder?? I think it would piss her off.

What I'm trying to say here is that is totally informal and there is no such title. And she also went straight to work for a hospital. I will have to ask her what type of coding she does.

there are definitely levels to coding - L&L

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just at in MT...from clinic notes to op reports.

coding for a physician office
coding for clinics
coding for ERs
rest of hospital coding

My best friend is a hospital coder. That is where the money is. She gets paid per chart. She has been doing this a looooong time.

I dont think anyone has argued that. What was being - discussed was the way the

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Way the phrase was being used in a degrading fashion. I am amazed that people have either failed to see it or have chosen not to see it for the sake of an argument.

semantics - you are purposefully misunderstanding people

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Nm

and you are purposefully insulting people. - nm

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Nope - I do not do that sort of thing

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When people say "low level coder", they mean that they are entry level, or beginning. Not that the person is somehow inferior. You are choosing to take that as a personal affront when no one meant it that way.

There are no lower level coders YET. Wait til MM enters - the field, then we will see. nm

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x

Riddle me this - Inquiring minds

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If those are the requirements, why are they willing to take medical transcriptionists with no coding background at all, no one with a CCS and probably no one with an RHIA or RHIT? Some of you may have 4-year degrees. None of you meet the experience requirement. The whole thing has sounded a bit goofy to me since this discussion began. MTs are smart and have the medical background but coding is a whole new ball game. It could take you years to reach the level of a CCS, hardly anyone who has never coded reaches that level of expertise with a 20-hour a week crash course, I don't care who teaches it. An RHIA or RHIT would require returning to school, I don't see them paying for all that education. Not to put anyone down, but why they want MTs with no background is a mystery.

Why they want MTs with no background - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
They aren't specifically looking for no background. They just can't find experienced, credentialed coders to hire, so they are doing what many facilities have to do ...take existing employees and train them.

Nothing wrong with the course time, either. It works out to 240 hours and includes an internship, which is far more than most coders get.

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