A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Need a change in profession - FormerMT

Posted: Jun 03, 2015

Are there any coding companies that provide on the job training? Is schooling required to become a coder?

Are coders paid hourly or piecemeal like an MT?

I have to get out of the MT industry for obvious reasons, but I really need something that I can move straight to without going to school and still work from home.

Any information is appreciated.

Thanks!

Answers to your question from my experience - Not a One Size Fits All Career Though

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Are there any coding companies that provide on the job training?
Answer: Not any that wouldn't take advantage of you, and you won't make any money.

Is schooling required to become a coder?

Yes! I speak as an experienced medical transcriptionist. Medical coding is not something you learn on the job if you actually want a successful career at it. There are always going to be stories about somebody who learned on the job, but really? Is it harder than MT? In many ways, yes. Just as medical coders in most cases can't transcribe at all, but don't know it, the same is true in reverse. These are completely different careers. Medical coding requires a deeper and more thorough knowledge of anatomy and diseases. You would be out of your mind to try it without a proper education. For one thing, without a very solid coding education, you won't be able to qualify to sit for the credentials required to get a job. The CCS is a monster even with a good education. No legitimate employer is going to even give you a second glance if you have not had the level of education required to pass that CCS exam. They also have their own exams that you have to pass as well. Learning on your own? Well, that's just not practical. You will end up hurting yourself.

If you do it right though and get the training you need, followed by the right credentials, it's a great job. Definitely worth doing if you are serious about your career. It's not for the casual job person though, because the training is HARD, the credential exams are TOUGH. It's worth it because you come out of it a professional medical coder with much better salaries than you can make as an MT, even the best of MTs.

Are coders paid hourly or piecemeal like an MT?
Answer: Most, but not all, are paid hourly.

Great information - FormerMT

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Thank you for the information. That is exactly what I needed to know. I am very serious about my career and very serious about making a change.

One more question: Are there any credible online schools that teach coding? How many years does it take to get through the coding school? Ok, that was two questions! :-)

Thanks again!

Can't help you there but be aware there is some very poor training available - Not a One Size Fits All Career Though

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Someone else will have to recommend schools. I could probably come up with a list of schools to run from. Those will include the ones that call you on the phone without being asked and harass you by e-mail for years to come.

Just be sure the school qualifies you to sit for the CCS exam as well as the CPC. You want both of those credentials, nothing less. The web sites should tell you. If they force you to provide personal information like phone number and e-mail before telling you if they prepare you for the CCS, that's a red flag.

Reputable schools - Coder

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Many colleges have online programs, but the quality is unpredictable, the cost is high, and it may take you 2 or possibly 3 years to complete even a 1-year program part time. They do not all qualify you for the CCS exam or even the CPC.

I attended Andrews and can recommend it. Their training is very thorough. You will be eligible for the CCS and won't have any trouble with the CPC. You can finish in a year if you are disciplined and follow a schedule, even if you are working. The cost is not unreasonable at all because they teach 3x what others teach.

Andrews School - FormerMT

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I've spent hours today researching schools and everything keeps pointing me to Andrews. All the reviews and other coders that have attended Andrews have nothing but good things to say. The cost is a bit more than other schools, but I feel like you get what you pay for. I am willing to pay for good training knowing it will pay off in my future career. With Andrews, can you take courses and tests when it is convenient for you? I work full time and have a baby, so I would need to study and take tests, etc. during late evening hours. Are you held to a set schedule or are you able to make your own schedule for courses? I am really leaning towards attending the Andrews School and am looking forward to getting this next year completed so I can get out of this miserable MT field. My only concern with this decision is the CAC - will we be in the same boat 10 years from now, having computers take over our jobs and lower the pay rate? Advances in technology is my biggest fear in going into coding. I just want to find a stable career making a decent salary and be able to retire from it.

Answers - Coder

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You will create your own schedule for Andrews, so that you complete assignments, lessons, tests, and modules on time. It will take about 14 hours a week. Setting a schedule and sticking to it will be important, because leaving it up to "when I have time" does not work.

Coding is not just one job, nor is it just what CAC can do. It is a complex job that is aided by CAC, but not supplanted by it. Frankly, you will welcome anything that will look up codes for you. To us, looking up codes is like peeling potatoes is to a chef ... it is necessary, but it is not where chefs should be spending their time. It is not why we pay chefs chef-level pay, either. Likewise, coders are paid for their intellectual work in decision-making and ability to identify what is not in the record and other things, not for looking up codes.

Coding is a part of health information management. Coding knowledge is a basic skill for nearly everything in HIM. You can move up and laterally in HIM from coding. There are many careers which require a solid knowledge of coding, like certain jobs in informatics, auditing, compliance, and clinical documentation improvement. (Don't you think your MT background will help with that???)

If by "stable career" you mean a job that will never change, you are asking for the impossible. That is an unrealistic expectation. Everything changes and you have to change with it. Fortunately, career changes in HIM are expected and there are many ways to learn what you need.

See the career map at www.ahima.org/careers. Google the AHIMA salary survey, too.

Former MT - Dazed and confused

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As others have said, you need to go to school and probably won't get a job working at home for your first job. Understand that you are going to be required to code a certain number of cases a day so there is a bit of a production element and accuracy is even more critical than it is in MT, you will need to pass audits. People tout huge salaries but there is a range and the big money comes with experience, just a it did with MT. At my facility, the pay scale for coders and MTs was the same. It was good money but the auditors and compliance officers made more. I took a pay cut when I moved from transcription to HIM. It is not true that you need to know how to code to work in Informatics; we have an entire department dedicated to that and none of them have a coding background. My thought is that you are really limiting yourself by the mindset that you have to work at home; if you need to do that for health reasons, I apologize in advance. I would suggest that you do some research on your own and find out if coding is something you would be happy doing. Job stability and pay are important but so is personal happiness.

Thank you all - FormerMT- SM

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Thank you all for your feedback. I've been doing a lot of research on schools, job market, salary, etc. and I really think this is the way I want to go. I understand that this is not just a "punch in numbers" job and there is a lot of logical thinking and research involved in being a good coder. Without giving too much information and giving away my identity, I started as a self-taught MT 15 years ago, within a couple of years, I became a lead MT, supervisor a year later and am now in an upper management position for a large MTSO. I am a hard worker, I am very smart and learn quickly. I realize this transition will require hard work and possibly a pay cut to begin with, but I absolutely despise what the MTSOs have become. I hate doing the things I am forced to do to my MTs and just can't stand the MT industry any longer. I do have reasons for needing to work from home, but I may have to work around those issues for a while to get some experience. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get this done. Thanks again - I think I've made my decision. Here's to a new start!!!

Here's to your new start! - from another self-taught MT

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I also self-taught in MT. That used to work years ago, not so much now. The employers didn't care as long as you could pass their tests. No credentials needed. Coding is definitely a different animal. The employers don't care where you go to school or if you go to school, as long as you have the right credentials, which are pure gold. Of course you can't even qualify to sit for those credentials if you didn't complete a course that satisfies the credentialing organization's requirements for you to sit for it. Passing it isn't easy even with the best of teachers. It isn't easy, but with your background in medical transcription, you're off to a good start. Hope to see you back on here soon as a credentialed and working medical coder. Oh yes, and the money is good, so much better than medical transcription. The hard work is worth the effort. Get yourself the best possible training. Don't skimp on that. There's no way to fix it without starting all over again if you take shortcuts. After you get that training, get the CPC and CCS, and the job options will be there. Skimp on it and you will have nothing but your loss of time and effort to show for it. Wishing you the best in your new career!

You will do very well in coding. - Coder

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With your background, you will do very well in coding. There is a lot to learn, but it all falls into place if you do it one day at a time.

I second the recommendation for a good school. Poorly trained coders are almost impossible to retrain. They just keep on doing it wrong, from using codes wrong, to using the wrong methods, to not knowing enough medicine to understand what they are reading, to not knowing or understanding the guidelines.

Get off on the right foot by choosing a good school. It will pay for itself many times over.

I also urge you not to go for only the CPC, thinking that after you do that you can work and then "go back" to school for the CCS. It doesn't work that way. There aren't a lot of courses just for the CCS and they are pricey. You might as well do it all now.

That is so true. There is no practical way to go back later for the CCS - You cannot get there from here

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All of us know that it's true, because we see it played out every day, but I've never heard someone just come out and say it. There is just no practical way to go back later for the CCS.

There must be thousands of would-be coders out there who have taken a CPC course, realized they need the CCS, and there's literally no practical way to get there from here without completely starting all over again, which of course nobody wants to do.

Major Advantage - sm

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That's a major advantage to the coders who trained in both CPC and CCS at one time. They have to be finding themselves in a very good situation these days with very little competition. Too many people think they can just stick their foot in the door with a little CPC coding and see if they like it. Big mistake, and not one that is easy to fix, if you can fix it at all without starting over from scratch.

It sounds like a little thing to start all over again if you find you like coding - Nobody does it though

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Take a look at all the people on forums that just took a little course in coding to see if they like it. That never works for them. They may have thought that they could go back and get into it more seriously if they like it, but two things are wrong with that plan.

First, people may enjoy those courses that gloss over coding briefly, but when they get out and can't find jobs, they tend to hate coding and blame coding itself for their failure.

Second, nobody wants to start all over again. Most of us can't afford it. There just isn't more time to mess with coding, so after hanging out on forums for a year or two trying to find a way to fix a bad education, they drop off and get into dog-walking.

The employers are not at all impressed - sm

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Speaking of those courses that gloss over coding briefly, that's not coding. Employers aren't going to give graduates of the gloss-over courses a second glance. The sad thing is, they think they will be coders when they finish. When they graduate, they believe they are coders. It's really sad when they find out that they aren't.

A good school - FormerMT

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I've been researching the schools and Andrews seems to be the popular choice. I spoke with the student coordinator at Andrews yesterday and from what was explained to me, their course is extremely thorough, and I will be qualified to certify for the CPC while in in the 3rd module of training and sit for the CCS as soon as I complete the course. I definitely want to get both the CPC and CCS as soon as I qualify - not point in doing anything half a$$! :-) If anybody knows anything bad about Andrews, I would like to hear it - but everything I have heard so far from the school as well as coders who attended Andrews has been nothing but rave reviews. I can only assume it is all true since I have heard zero bad experiences from anyone.

All true - Dazed and Confused

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Of course it's all true, you read it on the Internet on a forum written by strangers who you have never met. All I am going to say is don't count your chickens before they hatch. You already have yourself with double certifications before finishing the course and working somewhere making big bucks. Check out the requirements for the CCS exam as well as the CPC. Be prepared to put your life on hold while you study; I assume that you are working another job at the current time. I know you can do it because Andrews students never fail. Good luck and best wishes.

They work with you until you get it as long as you are working with them - Contact graduates through the school

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I don't think anyone ever said that they were perfect, but Andrews will work with you until you get it, as long as you are working with them. Nobody ever said that their students never fail. That would be ridiculous. You can contact the school and ask to be connected to graduates. It isn't all about strangers on a forum. By the way, I know for a fact that their graduates do pass both the CPC and CCS exams, and you can talk with some of them to find out just how they did it.

Hint: We have given Linda permission on the Andrews School Board (not the Facebook forum) to let us talk to people who are considering medical coding through Andrews School.

Free advertising - One born every minute

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How nice for Linda; when do you receive your sales commission?

Unlike many schools students don't get referral fees from Andrews - nm

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nm

Andrews School Board - Minnie

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How do I find the Andrews School Board? I found the blog on their website, is that what you mean or is there something else? Thanks.

I believe you have to write Linda for access to it - Also

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You get access to the main page of it including discussions, mainly congratulations posts, but not the part where the work is taking place.

I'm not an idiot - FormerMT

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I realize that everything you read on the internet is not true; however, it is hard to find fault in something when you ask for opinions from people who have experienced what you are researching and you get all good feedback. And we all know there are people on the internet who are just waiting to give you the dirt on something. I realize I will eventually have to find out for myself by experience, but it never hurts to ask for other people's experience. And I DON'T already have myself double certified, making big bucks. But I do have a goal, a goal that I KNOW I can achieve because I don't let negative people like you brow beat me into thinking I can't do it. Again, thank you all for your time and feedback.

Very Well Said! - small message

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Very well said! You're going to do just fine. I love what you've written. It shows that you've obviously got good self-esteem, you're intelligent, and you've got it all together. I'm betting that you are going to do very well as a medical coder with both CPC and CCS not too far in the future.

That post did not say all informatics required coding. - Informaticist

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Sorry, but that post did NOT say that ALL informatics jobs required a coding background.

This is what it said: "There are many careers which require a solid knowledge of coding, like certain jobs in informatics, auditing, compliance, and clinical documentation improvement."

See? It said CERTAIN jobs in informatics. Just before that, it was clear it was talking about HIM informatics.

In other words, SOME types of jobs in informatics require a knowledge of codes, code sets, and the related subjects. Not all of them.

There is more than one type of informatics. Nursing informatics, clinical informatics, pharmacy informatics, and health information informatics. The last is one of the fastest growing areas in health information administration. It is taught in baccalaureate, masters, and doctoral programs.

I am pretty sure about that because I happen to be one.

What you have at your hospital does not set the standard or define reality everywhere. It sounds as though you may work at a small, rural or very behind the times hospital.

For what it is worth, coders are paid more than MTs nearly everywhere. They also make more than file room, release of information, and anyone else in HIM who is not specialized, like privacy, auditors, compliance, CDI and, yes, informatics.

I do not understand why you offer opinions here when you are not even a coder. You have no way to know whether what you say is accurate or not.

Thanks for enlightening me - Dazed and confused

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Inhave a right to share personal experience and I don't have to be a working coder to know my facility's pay scale for coders and MTs. You assumed t hat it was a hospital; it's actually ambulatory care and would not be considered backwoods by anyone's standards. Why do you care? Why are people led to believe that coding is the only option after Amat ends? You've not an MT but you have opinions about that, excuse me for trying to participate in your exclusive discussion.

Excuse the typos - Dazed and confused

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No message

Not the OP but most of us are MTs who transitioned to coding - nm

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nm

Ambulatory care is the reason for the low pay. - at your facility.

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Outpatient coding tends to pay less because it is less complex. The medical records and their requirements are also less complex.

There is also less reason to have actual health informatics and there is far less need for high-level HIM. Now that we know that you work in ambulatory care, it is more clear why you are disagreeing with us and why you do not understand what coding is.

Please stop resorting to personal attacks on us. You cannot know what I am, so you have no reason to claim that I am not an MT. In fact, I was an MT, as were most of the coders here. Non-MT coders typically do not know about this board.

You are certainly welcome to post here, but when you post misinformation we have an obligation to correct it. I encourage you to post as much as you can, just to give us an opportunity to correct popular rumors.

No, actually the big money can come very quickly in coding - Personal Experience

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Several things that you said are a little misleading. Obviously you need to go to school, as you said. That's a no-brainer. It's necessary to get a very solid education in both outpatient and inpatient in order to be a well-rounded medical coder.

It's also true that accuracy is important and there will be someone checking your work to make sure you are doing it correctly. Nothing wrong with that. I, in fact, think that's a very good thing. You aren't penalized if a word is misspelled, a doctor messes up the documentation, or an error is found the way you are in MT.

Also, coders are not usually paid the way MTs are, by the line so to speak. You will be expected to do a reasonable amount of work just as you are in any kind of job, but most coders are salaried or paid by the hour, with really good pay for overtime. The good salaries come very quickly to coders with a solid coding education, and then just gets higher and better with experience.

Yes, the huge salaries are a reality. They don't come instantly, but if you have the right credentials, CPC and CCS, you can control your career. The career doesn't control you, as MT does.

not only that (to add to former MT) - you are lucky to find a job at all

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coding with no experience. Sorry but that's the sad truth. I'm only going into coding because my employer is training me in it.

That is such an overgeneralization and not my experience - Strongly Disagree

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Skilled, credentialed new coders are finding jobs. It doesn't have to be as you described it if you are prepared for the job, and many are not, so they don't find jobs. It just depends on your skills and your credentials. Employers are very happy to hire coders who can not only pass, but excel on their coding employment tests and have both CPC and CCS credentials. As far as your employer training is concerned, good luck with that! Let's hope that you always want to work for that one employer. Otherwise, you've got a problem unless you have your credentials, which you won't be able to pass based on experience alone, because experience is not broad enough.

Your employer will control your income and your career - sm

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We saw this play out last year. We would have thought that people would have learned from the experiences of those who went through it and told us about it. It's a classic example of what not to do if you want a serious medical coding career.

Never, ever put yourself in the hands of an employer who controls what you learn, how you learn it, and leaves you unable to work anywhere else. That is so dangerous. It's also really great for the employer because they have you and you have no place else to go, but they tend to only hint at your becoming certified or credentialed. It rarely, if ever, happens. Thus, you are stuck.

the training my employer provides will allow me to sit for exams - not worried

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x

if this is mmodal - anon

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You SHOULD be worried. I'm not trying to be mean or negative. This company steals from its employees, lies and engages in all sorts of unscrupulous behavior. They have proven themselves untrustworthy and to only look out for THEIR bottom line. And this is who you are going to trust to provide you with the proper knowledge/education for a REAL coding career? They are as bad as Nuance. I would love for every MT to get away from each of these MTSOs, whether that is coding or something completely unrelated. They really are the devil and I do speak from (horrible) experience!

I believe you may be mistaken. - See message

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Employer training doesn't meet the requirement to qualify to sit for the CCS exam. From AHIMA's web site:

By Education: Completion of a coding training program that includes anatomy & physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, medical terminology, reimbursement methodology, intermediate/advanced ICD diagnostic/procedural and CPT coding;

yep we cover all of that. - books are the same as those used

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in other courses. I'm not sure why you think it's such a terrible program.

I've been with MM for over 10 years. I think i'm pretty familiar with them by now. I'm still happy. I'm sorry there are people who are not satisfied with them but I consider myself lucky to be with them.

You got books this time? When did that happen? - Something fishy here

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Definitely something fishy here.

we always had electronic books. We did get a hard copy - CPT code book

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i'm not sure why you have an obsession with proving that the program is such a bad thing.

This is why graduates of electronic courses don't pass the CCS exams - Think about it

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That's a poor excuse for coding. You really don't hear about people who took courses without real ICD coding books passing the CCS exam, because they can't. They don't qualify to sit for it. They couldn't pass it if they did. It's a very poor plan to try to learn to code without actual code books. As MTs have learned, making something electronic is not necessarily a good thing. In this case, it is definitely not a good thing.

Not the OP but if you are getting good feedback from credentialed CCS instructors - You have a chance

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If you're getting really good training and feedback from CCS-credentialed instructors, if they are explaining your mistakes to you and answering your questions, and if they don't cancel or change things on you, it may be a good thing for you, if working for them is what you always want to do. In other words, if they have a proven track record of always being a responsible, successful employer that values and cares for the people who work for them, that can only be a good thing.

Thanks for the positive words! - HDS2Coder

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x

What "books" are these? - sm

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Last time I heard, you had no textbooks at all. You had no code books, because you were taught to code using their software.

The AHIMA requirements do not mean your program covered a page about something. It means an entire college-level course in it.

we had electronic books for ICD10 - x

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again, not sure your source is and why you are so against this program. I'm taking it for what it is and building upon it.

Only training using actual ICD-9 or ICD-10 code books meets requirements - sm

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Training has to include learning from actual code books, not electronic books. Think about it. How are you even going to take your electronic books with you for certification exams or employment tests? You aren't, because they aren't allowed and it wouldn't be possible anyway because you weren't trained on how to use them. So as far as being prepared for credentials, that isn't happening. Credentials are like insurance. You have mobility. You aren't stuck. There are paths to advancement that are not available to noncredentialed coders. If you know that you are always going to happy right where you are, even if situations change where you are, that's fine. Otherwise it's a poor choice.

If you cannot use a hard-copy code book, you cannot - pass, or even take, any exam.

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The fact that you do not know this shows what is wrong with that program. You have been misled. You have not been provided with the information you need to be successful in coding or pass the exams you need. Saying that does not mean I am "against" you or them. It is just a fact.

I initially supported that program but after hearing more and observing their behavior, I no longer do. I think they provided you with a poorly thought out mess.

The problem is that you do not know what coding is or what is required to pass those exams or work until you have taken a good course, passed, and worked. We have done all those things. We know. You do not.

We have tried to find out exactly what your course has and to provide advice and work-around to help you, but you respond to every bit of it by screeching that we are against you and that you trust your employer.

When your course began, I told you all that you needed to buy code books and use them along with your course, or you would have problems later on with the exams. You would not learn what you needed to learn for coding or be able to use a book to pass ANY exam.

I will bet that you STILL have not bothered to look up the content, the testing method, or the requirements for ANY of the exams.

The truth is that you cannot sit for the CCS unless your program included a long list of courses (or have two years experience in inpatient coding). Yours did not. You cannot sit for that test for two years, IF your course actually covered inpatient, outpatient, and facility coding, and IF you are working in inpatient coding. It will be two long years at below-market pay before you could conceivably get that pay raise. (Yes, your employer knows this.)

You also have been trained onto their e-book. Who knows what that looks like. Whatever, it means that you do not know the layout of a paper code book, or how to use it, nor can you use it fast enough to pass the exam.

YOU HAVE TO CODE CASES ON THE EXAMS. The exams are not just multiple choice questions ABOUT coding. They are not just questions about med terms and recognizing how to spell drug names. They require you TO CODE CASES. To do that, they require you to use medical knowledge at a level that is higher than what you are being taught. Look at the book linked below. That is only part of what you need to know, but it is the level at which you need to know pathophysiology.

We are not making that up. It is a KNOWN, NOTORIOUS PROBLEM. People fail because of it. You can't bring a laptop with your e-book or a disk to the exam. You have to bring not only a book, but a certain type of book, and you have to know how to use that book. FAST.

There is a reason they gave you a CPT book. It is that the CPT code set is copyrighted. It is not available on the net for free from CMS, like the ICD code sets. They had to buy the book.

I hope the book they gave you is a CPT Professional, because the regular one is less adequate and the CPT Expert is banned by both AHIMA and AAPC for the exams.

good thing we dont need your support, huh? - why so angry?

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i'm not even sure why you are so passionate about MModal or even care why we are in this program.

Just to note, nothing we had was free, i'm not sure where you get that information. We had to have access codes to all of our books through Cengage.

OP is pointing out facts but I did not see any anger at all - nm

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nm

the caps imply screaming. - n/m

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x

Not in that context ... no screaming was implied. - see message

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Those caps are there for emphasis. They are emphasising things that you have not appeared to be hearing in past posts. People have been saying them, but you have not been hearing what they mean.

Resorting to accusations of "all-caps screaming" is another form of inappropriate response to discussion. It is an off-topic, unfair tactic used when a party feels defensive, but has nothing constructive to say.

I didn't interpret it as yelling - Just my opinion

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When I read it I thought it was using those caps for emphasis. I do that all the time. Many of us do. I'm sensitive to the kinds of caps that really do mean yelling, but this wasn't that.

They do cover all that? Can you explain how? - I heard otherwise

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Perhaps you can share a list of the books you used?

Oh, no, wait! You can't because they swore you to secrecy! It is a trade secret, because they don't want potential clients finding out how little training you have.

No nothing like that. I actually logged into Cengage to - find the books but honestly I cant

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remember the name of them and I guess it has been so long they don't show up anymore? I have other books on there as I am taking online courses and the ones over a year old don't show up there either, even as expired books.

What is your point? Why waste all of your time and energy coming here to prove that our program is terrible? I'm happy. Why is that so wrong? Why are you determined to prove me wrong? What do you gain from it?? Does it help you sleep at night? I just don't understand it.

Not the OP but it's a matter of untruths being seen by others as truths - sm

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We listened last year. Many of us have friends who told us there were no books; thus, no chance for learning what you need to learn to sit for credentials exams. Now someone comes and says that there were actual physical books with pages that you can turn with your fingers. Really? I am skeptical too, along with the OP.

The only physical book we have is CPT. We had online books - The bonuses are extremely generous

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and will allow us to purchase our own books if we choose to do so.

What books.???? - sm

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There it is again ..."sure, we had books" ... but still no mention of WHAT books they were. "They were online, but disappeared."

That is why we are doubtful. First, your classmates said there were no hard copy books. Then you said there were books. Now, you can't say what books because they vanished.

They must have made a huge impression on you if you can't even recall what they were about!

Oh, and now your bonuses will be so big you can afford books. Missing the point ... you needed books to learn. How, or what, did you learn with no books???

That is why we think you sound evasive.

When I took coding, I had a stack of books a full yard high. In addition to the three code sets, there were seven or eight textbooks. I have a hard time understanding a coding course that uses no reputable books.

I also do not know any coder who used one of those books who cannot recall it. They can all rattle them off YEARS later.

You never saw me post about hard copy books except for CPT - you were inferring they were hard copies

[ In Reply To ..]
x

See the message "yep we cover all of that. - books are the same as those used by other courses - Bystander watching this discussion

[ In Reply To ..]
See the post elsewhere on this page that said Yep - books are the same as those used by other courses.

Of course they weren't, but

Also someone said they "allow us" to buy our own books if we want. What is this, a 3rd World country or something? They "allow" you to buy your own books if you want? This is unbelievable and keeps getting worse the more the facts come out.

Im not sure what you are trying to say. They are the books used - by other courses, just electronic versions

[ In Reply To ..]
In our job we are provided with electronic versions of everything we need. Our bonuses will allow us to buy hard copies. Does that help clear up the confusion? Sorry if I was unclear.

I hear what you are saying but don't agree with your analysis - When is a book not a book

[ In Reply To ..]
An electronic version of a book used by other courses and/or on a job is not equal to or the same as the actual item. You cannot do the same process with an electronic book. You cannot take the book with you when you sit for your exams. You will be lost if you get a job where you are expected to know how to use a real book. It is not the same thing. I respect the fact that you believe that it is and were not trying to mislead anyone, but you are completely and absolutely incorrect in your understanding of it. That's understandable too, because people don't know what they don't know. You are just entering into the idea of a medical coding career. You couldn't be expected to know the difference between and value of an electronic version of a book and a real coding book. Thank you for explaining what you meant. Sorry that I can't agree with you. Years of experience have taught me otherwise.

I agree with you, it is not the same. But you have to consider - we were given make/break exams

[ In Reply To ..]
if you did not pass their high standards (80 or higher on tests) you were removed from the program. and several were!! It did not make sense for them to start handing out $100+ books to people who they weren't sure would even be there to start coding. Like I said, we were sent hard copies of the CPT book after we completed the first portion of our training and got the bonus.

I took umbrage with the fact that everyone was saying there were no books at all, and that's just not true.

Also, the program we use is absolutely wonderful. It has tons of references and online help for coding. We will never see paper charts like someone in an office will so we need to get used to doing everything online. You have to realize, they are training us to work with their software. And that's fine by me. I'm happy to get paid to learn and stay with them for now. I'm going with it and if it starts to suck i'm out!

Okay, so there was one book, a CPT book - When a book is not a book

[ In Reply To ..]
I understand that you were trying to stay in the program. You eventually did get a book, one book, a CPT book, but no ICD-9 or ICD-10 books. That is clear now. You also had access to electronic versions of the book which will work just fine as long as you want to work in their program. Am I summarizing your position correctly?

I can understand why you did what you did and made the decisions that you made, even though I would not have made those same decisions because I'm always thinking toward a long-term career. I will stipulate that not everyone has a need or desire to look at it that way. You have been brave to present your facts the way you see them, and I applaud you for that. The book situation makes me worry about the quality of coding that's going to be coming out of that program, unless it's just intended to be what I would call superficial coding where everyone always uses pretty much the same codes because they have specialties and typically have the same diagnoses as well, meaning no very serious professional coding will be needed. That's not an insult, by the way. That's just based on my own personal experience where casual coding was fine at one facility and far from it in another. At any rate, I understand your position and respect your decision to stay with it and get paid to learn. If you had intended to have a long-term credentialed coding career, I would not agree with your decision, because it's like putting the breaks on what could be a professional coding career, but for the purposes you described, getting paid to learn and staying with them using their program, that should work fine for you, for your sake, we hope. It's worth a try.

It was a software program, not a book - I can recall it

[ In Reply To ..]
There were no books.

there were electronic books we read and took tests on. - but not hard copies for ICD 10

[ In Reply To ..]
Maybe your definition of software program and mine are different? the books were through Cengage and we were given access codes to at least 2 that I can remember. Like I said I also take online classes and it has been almost a year since we did the ICD10 books.

But you are right the ICD 9 we didn't have books for.

Not the OP, but those bonuses sound like a very inviting TRAP - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Nope. I would have done it without the bonus. - no trap here.

[ In Reply To ..]
but I'm glad I did get one! I had fun spending that first bonus :D

I thought we were having a serious discussion about serious coding training issues - Clearly not the case

[ In Reply To ..]
That's a rather unserious way to treat a bonus if it was in fact to be used for coding books that could have been helpful to you. This is not a good sign. A serious coding student would have snapped up the opportunity to get those books and enroll in a serious and comprehensive coding program. This is sounding worse by the minute. I'm having trouble believing the lack of professionalism involved.

No they never said that specifically. I inferred that. Who knows - they be sending have sent us books upon

[ In Reply To ..]
completion. I was surprised about the CPT book.

One thing you have to remember. This is pilot program! They have never done it before and we have never done it before. This is a total learning experience for all of us. I'm proud to have been chosen and am looking forward to next month

Okay. We'll leave it there then - Clearly not the case

[ In Reply To ..]
I hope you do well. I'm sure you are excited about it. You'll hopefully have lots of good things to come back and talk to us about once you get started.

Thanks!! Glad we could leave it on a positive note :) - x

[ In Reply To ..]
x

OK, this is what you had. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You had an online ICD-9 or 10 code book from Cengage.

You had no coding textbooks. You probably used PowerPoints some person wrote.

You have now been sent a hard-copy CPT, which you think is real special because you don't realize that there is no other option because it is copyrighted.

You are unaware that you are unable to code without the code lookup software, because you have been led to believe you are coding.

You don't care, either, because you don't like "coding" much from what you have seen of it and you are only in it to get a half-day off from typing.

Agree, you are in this for their convenience. Could have - had credentials by now.

[ In Reply To ..]
You have been on-and-off in this alleged program for more than a year, I believe, yet none of you have any credentials. Why is that?

I originally thought that no harm could come of that experiment. However, you are nowhere near where you should be by now.

It only takes 80 hours of class to teach someone enough to pass the CPC. You have not even had HCPCS or HCPCS. You don't even have books, according to your classmates.

You should be credentialed by now, but you are still waiting for the rest of your course. You have been away from it for months. Now, it is timed to coincide with Oct 1.

If your employer had jobs for you, given that you spent 20 hours a week on it, you would have been working in 3 or 4 months. If you had been provided what you needed for credentials, THERE IS SUCH A SHORTAGE OF CODERS that you would have ALL found an outside job by now. I am afraid it looks like you were manipulated to keep you from learning enough to do that.

If you had taken an AAPC course in the few months since this thing ended, you would be a CPC by now.

If you had taken Andrews instead, from the outset, you could have been a working CCS, CPC by now.

I can only speak for myself but I know quite a few of - the others are

[ In Reply To ..]
already in coding or HIM classes outside of MM. Some are actively pursing other fields outside of MT at a college or university. This is only a year commitment after the final bonus, it gives us experience plus it looks great on a resume. For me this was a good fit. I can understand why it wouldn't be for some who want to be die hard coders. I was never passionate about coding full time. It was something that just happened. I had an opportunity to get paid to learn a new skill. How cool is that?I flow like water, go with the flow. The program was stopped. So what? I go back to typing full time. No big deal. Now it's starting back up. Alright, cool.

I have to say, last summer was one of the best summers of my life with a half and half schedule, typing and growing my fund of knowledge. I was burned out on MT and it was a wonderful break. I look forward to spending the last half of the summer this way as well.

That does sound like a very nice break from MT - Happy for you

[ In Reply To ..]
It sounds like it was a good experience for you and probably will be again. You aren't really looking to have a permanent medical coding career, so no problem there. I'm happy for you.

Thank you, I appreciate that. - HDS2Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
we all have our own journey. This is mine. Good luck on yours as well.

That is nonsense. 95% of new CPC-As were employed - in 2014.

[ In Reply To ..]
That is complete nonsense. It is quite possible to get a job without experience. I did it. Nearly every working coder did it.

It helps to get the right credentials to speed things up and widen the types of jobs you qualify for. That is why we recommend the CPC and the CCS.

The people you see complaining about having trouble are usually not credentialed, have non-standard "certifications" that employers do not accept, or have the CCA.

The unemployment rate for newly credentialed CPCs is very low. In 2014, 95% of them found a coding job.

In light of that, I think it is unfortunate that you chose to limit your abilities and options out of fear based on rumors and other hysteria.

It probably also has to do with your mobility and job availability - in your area. In my case

[ In Reply To ..]
They only want those with experience. I also had a friend that was a coder that got laid off because there wasn't enough work at her hospital. She was able to find work an hour away. But it took quite some time. It's all about location.

So you told us, but "location" and "employers all want" - are excuses.

[ In Reply To ..]
I disagree. Claims that employers all want experience is an excuse, as is the belief that location is an insurmountable obstacle.

It is an excuse because inexperienced coders get jobs all the time, and they even get them as remote coders.

It all depends on qualifications and credentials, and your ability to pass an employment exam.

As for your friend, I know of very few employers who would do anything to even displeasure a competent, valued coder, much less lay one off. I can say with almost absolute assurance that if your friend got laid off, she has some kind of problem that led to it. It is most likely that she is a poor coder for two reasons. First, because we will put up with all kinds of things for a good coder. Second, because there are loads of HIM staffing companies which employ remote coders. If she was a good coder with the appropriate credentials, she would not have needed to look an hour away.

Wow! You said all of the things I was thinking - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Location isn't the problem. Qualifications and credentials make the difference in getting a job and not getting or keeping one. The friend could have found a job without having to drive for long distances. People are hiring remote coders if they have the right credentials. Sorry to repeat much of what the poster above said, but those were my exact thoughts too, based on facts, personal experience, and knowledge of the industry.

I see these incorrect statements posted on forums like this and on Facebook. They are always posted by people who are new to the field or who didn't get the training they needed. They automatically assume that it's because of where they live or nobody will hire new coders, neither of which is true. New coders get hired all the time. Otherwise there would be no old coders.

MModal is training 50+ of their MTs to become coders - HDS2Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
Amphion does MT to coding also.

No, they aren't. They were providing basic coding at one time - See inside message

[ In Reply To ..]
They did about 10 months, starting in ICD-10. Then the switched to ICD-9. Then they canceled. They never covered CPT or HCPCS, so it was a disaster for anyone who truly wanted a medical coding career. It wasn't even close to providing what was needed for credentials.

Don't ever put yourself in the position of being stuck with 1 employer - and no coding credentials

[ In Reply To ..]
No competitor will hire uncredentialed coders trained by someone who is not an expert in coding, even if the program had continued.

who says i wont be credentialed?? I fully plan on obtaining - Certification. In fact it is encouraged

[ In Reply To ..]
and we will generous receive raises for doing so.

Let us know when you pass those exams. So far, - nobody has. nm

[ In Reply To ..]
Nm

Who is nobody? I dont know anyone who has sat yet. - most of them are still in Andrews

[ In Reply To ..]
x

What do you mean, still in Andrews? - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

as I posted above, many of them are in coding classes already - or had previously taken a course

[ In Reply To ..]
and couldn't find jobs without experience.

Well obviously you haven't been on the Andrews forum recently - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
If you are saying they can't find a job without experience after graduating from Andrews, that is incorrect. I'm not sure that you were saying that. You may have meant that they had some other training. I know of 2 Andrews graduates who aren't even graduates yet and got jobs because of the level of their skills. I apologize if I misunderstood what you were saying. It's hard to follow a conversation in drips like this.

If your course was not so bad, they would not have had to - retake coding at Andrews!!!

[ In Reply To ..]
They would not have had to take Andrews if your course had taught coding correctly in the first place, hmm?

Why are you not seeing that?

I never said they were retaking it. some were in Andrews - while they were accepted into

[ In Reply To ..]
the program. I don't know these women on a personal basis and I have just been touching base with them here and there.

how do you know that Are you in personal contact - with everyone in the program

[ In Reply To ..]
I know you are not so you have no way of knowing that

Not the OP, but there are strict requirements for sitting for those exams - so I think she does know it

[ In Reply To ..]
It's pretty clear that no credentials have come from that program for several reasons. They are obvious. Read the comments below for a start and then go back to last year's comments.

This was not a project that was supposed to result in credentials unless by a stretch you are talking about the CCA, which doesn't really count for most employers, and I don't think even that was in the picture. It was supposed to train people to work on accounts for one company. There is nothing wrong with that for those who want to do it. I wouldn't, but some would. I say they should go for it if they have no better options or aren't willing or able to arrange to have better options. The credentials though? I would say maybe the CPC was possible, but they haven't studied CPT/HCPCS yet, am I correct? It would be pretty hard to get your CPC if you haven't studied CPT/HCPCS yet, and the CCS is out of the question for many reasons.

we were told we would be eligible to sit for exams - starting up CPT/HCPCS next month

[ In Reply To ..]
x

That would be the CPC, which has no eligibility requirements - Everyone is eligible without training

[ In Reply To ..]
The CPC doesn't have any eligibility requirements except

1) Pay the exam fee.
2) Maintain current membership with AAPC

So yes, you will be eligible to sit for that exam over CPT/HCPCS. You could take it right now. There are no eligibility requirements that say you have to know how to code first.

Agree, and here is why we know you cannot qualify - to sit for the CCS or CCS-P.

[ In Reply To ..]
We know that you cannot meet the eligibility requirements for the CCS or CCS-P because when we explained what they were, you said "Yeah, sure we had all that! Yeah! Rah! Rah!" but you were unable to say how you had it.

In fact, you were unaware that there were requirements.

You remain unable to say what textbooks you used, eventually claiming that they disappeared from Cengage.

The truth is that coding students can very clearly remember their textbooks, and code books, years later, simply because they have such an extreme love-hate relationship with them.

Coding students who ARE eligible for certification exams absolutely know it. They know exactly what they are, know what is on them, and know where to find the information about them.

They do not deflect every discussion with a vaguely cult-like mumble of "they said we could take them."

All of you have Koolaid stains on your faces.

You are still "planning" on it ... You should have HAD at - least one MONTHS ago.

[ In Reply To ..]
You should have passed the CPC already. Months ago.

What is wrong that you couldn't???

This is not an attack on you, either. It is a statement of fact. That course had enough time for the CPC two or three times over.

What is wrong with the picture?

again, why so angry? Im not in a rush. I make good money - MT with MModal.

[ In Reply To ..]
"what is wrong that you couldn't" That's not a personal attack?

This board makes the MModal board sound like a Christian Day camp. You ladies are harsh over here!!

It is not as good as what coders make. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
It isn't that good, because you would not be aspiring to work for M*Modal at low-end coding pay for a year. You have to be making less than that for it to look even remotely attractive. You would have no interest in coding at all otherwise.

me too I am planning on getting credentialed too - been doing some training

[ In Reply To ..]
on my personal time while waiting for this to start back up. The training I did on my own was a lot easier since I had already been trained on most of it by MModal. Not a huge fan of this company but in the end this coding program is a good thing for me

I have enjoyed it as well - n/m

[ In Reply To ..]
x

Something else to consider; it's similar to the infamous internships - Please see message

[ In Reply To ..]
This is a very similar situation to the courses that don't teach very much, but tell the students that they can't learn from school, they only learn on the job anyway. Then they place them in internships that keep them in subsections of healthcare where they are given simple tasks and income based on the fact that they are doing very simple tasks. There's nothing wrong with that for someone who has no other option available to them. It's better than their current situation and worth it just to have some salary coming in, regardless how small and in spite of the fact that there is little or no advancement opportunity. It's still a win-win situation. Definitely a win situation for the employer, and good enough for the employee who makes this choice. Not a choice others might make, but a good enough choice for some. It may be the only choice available for others, and you can't fault them for that. I wish them success.

yeah and they arent done. - thats why we are going back to class

[ In Reply To ..]
next month.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me - No other comment

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

AGAIN? - gotta be kidding

[ In Reply To ..]
The first experiment failed and now they are going to try it again?

If you don't have time to go to school, medical coding is not a good choice - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Have you not read the disaster stories of people who did what you described, trying to get into medical coding the fast and easy way? Find another career, but medical coding requires an investment of a good amount of time studying. As a former MT myself I can tell you that there is way too much at risk to take such a casual approach to a medical coding career. There are MTSOs who are delving into coding, but not in a serious way. Real medical coders would categorize it as data entry, not medical coding. It's more at the level of skill that a medical biller might have. That's not medical coding.

Bad idea; Very Unrealistic Plan - Jamie

[ In Reply To ..]
Do something else. Medical coding is not something to step into without some very serious studies and credentials. There are other better choices for you. Your plan is not realistic. Don't do it. You will get hurt.

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is a 48-year-old gentleman who carries the diagnosis of multiple sclerosis, based on abnormalities separating space and time, MRI changes consistent. ...

Sep 11, 2010

There is a book called "Who moved my cheese?" that I would highly recommend for those who are struggling so much with the upgrade. From this board, it seems that there is no possibility that a major upgrade in a complicated software in and of itself might need some bugs ironed out (anyone heard of Windows?) as opposed to an evil company finding a way for people on the other side of the world to spy on you while you work or a bunch of overpaid executives sitting around a table discussing ho ...

Nov 18, 2010

My docs are usually ortho - but he threw this in today just to keep me on my toes I guess. Is this correct? EKG change. New Q's in II, II, and F and a new incomplete left bundle-branch block with poor anterior R-wave progression. ...

Feb 04, 2011

I came across this today, CBay Holdings name change. http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2011/02/03/medquist-holdings-moves-to-buy-rest-of.html ...