A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry


Firing good MTs - Jolly MT


Posted: May 07, 2010

Below someone commented that good MTs are let go.  That they see a trend.  That they project this is because the "older" MTs make more.

First, "good" MTs are not only or always "old" MTs.  Sometimes quite the opposite.

Second, what constitutes a trend?

Third, what kind of sense does that make?  If an MTSO is in business to make money, they need to get the lines typed.  More experienced MTs do not, as a general rule, get paid more money than less experienced but equal to talent MTs.  In order to stay in business, you need the lines typed.  Would it not make sense to have someone already trained and doing a good job be the one doing those lines, then to fire the "good" ones so they could hire less experienced people and then have to ramp up?

I agree there are some issues with MT at this point in time, but seriously this "they are out to get us" mentality is craziness.  MQ/Spheris/CBAY- don't go there to work.  Transcend if they freak you out cause they are so horrible- don't go there either.  The only "trend" I can see is a trend for MTs to be blaming everyone else for their situation instead of making their own situation better.

Yahoo! someone who speaks the truth and - not paranoia and negativity

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nm

Totally agree - 40 years of experience

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In 40 years doing this work, I have never received more money because I had years of experience. I did get more money because my experience meant I could do whatever work there was--meaning I did not have to do only office notes or clinic or ERs but could do anything available. When I had my own small business it was the line rate I received that determined what I could pay. The only time I ever paid any transcriptionist less than another was when I had to do full QA until an MT was released to partial QA (filling in blanks and occasional reviews). Over those years, there were MTs that were just never going to get off QA and so I did let them go.verall

Reality is hiring and training is expensive, time-consuming (that is expensive too), and some companies may not recognize that or care but in my personal experience, much accommodation is made to keep a good transcriptionist working, producing, and making money for the company and for the MT.

I think it's a current trend of people not taking responsibility for themselves - Sign of the times

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I think it's just a trend. People don't want to take responsibility for themselves. It's more 'comfortable' to blame others instead of doing whatever you need to do. 'Lazy' would be another term for it. It doesn't bode well for our country unless this is a shortlived trend. Personally, I'm ready for it to be over. I'm tired of all the whining.
The current trend is MTSOs not taking responsibility for - the havoc the wreak upon their workers, (sm)
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and by their blind faith in AHDI that is wreaking havoc upon the entire transcription industry.
Amen - anon
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What the eff is the deal with so many people on this site who claim not to be management or related, who are so determined to try to tell everybody else on here that the sky is red, water is dry, and/or bears do not live in the woods? What are you guys smoking (and where can I get some)? All is not well in this industry, at least not on the MT end. The fact that 2 or 3 out of 100 of us are doing well enough to get by does not mean things are rosy for most transcriptionists or that the other 97 or 98 are whiners, lazy, crazy, or anything else--just in the majority.

JollyMT - Old MTSO

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You are right on! I personally do not care what age an MT is--I do care that he or she knows their stuff. This matter of blaming is really disheartening. I want MTs who can take responsibility for themselves--there are many of them out there, thankfully. Sadly enough, there are also whiners, complainers, and people who only think of MTing as a built-in babysitter. I love children too, and have a large family, but I believe in appropriate boundaries between family and work. But yes, I do think you have called it correctly!

No, it doesnt make sense. But theyre doing it. - s/msg

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With all the cockamamie software we now work on, together with low-paid and/or third world QAs butchering our work, speed and quality discrepancies between newer and older workers have begun to vanish. Now the main difference between the two is pay rate, and the older MTs' often jaded view of the biz because they know they're being scr$wed.

Can you provide evidence of "old" MTs - being paid these wonderful rates

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Who is they?

I'm sincerely curious because my situation does not reflect this experience.

I am an older MT being paid a good rate - OldMT

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But I notice at my company that my work is gradually disappearing. My company has not lost my accounts and if anything, my accounts are busier than they have ever been.

But I also know that this work, even though it is there, is not available to me. It is being routed to newer MTs who hired on at a cheaper rate than they are paying me.

So I'm living proof.
So I'm living proof. - JollyMT
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At the risk of sounding contrary, and I imagine I might, how do you know? Did your MTSO say, "We're rerouting work because you cost too much?" I see your situation as one of conjecture. And if your MTSO DID tell you, then one has to wonder about his/her business sense.
This is not conjecture - OldMT
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What I said is absolutely true and is not conjecture on my part.

But after reading all your posts, it is my suspicion that you are are most likely in a management position somewhere. So I will respectfully decline to tell you exactly how I know this.

But it is definitely a fact. Much of the work that I had previously is being routed to the newer and cheaper MTs.
The only reason to do that is if they can get the same quality work for less money - That is the way business works
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The important thing is to keep upgrading your own skills so that you don't get left behind. If you are better and able to get more work done because you are an experienced expert, you'll keep the work. If they can get the same thing for less money and fewer hassles & headaches, of course they will. That's the way business works. If they can find MTs who do the work without griping and complaining, that saves them money too. We don't know what your particular situation is, of course, but it's never as simple as it first seems.

I think by "older", they didn't mean age - not old in years

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If you read that message about the trend of companies letting "older" MTs go because they tend to make more money, you will see that they followed that with the companies hiring "newer" MTs at lower rates.

So I don't think they were talking about AGE per se. It seems to me they were talking about "older" as in MTs who have been with the company for a longer time. And yes, those MTs do tend to make more money because they were hired in back when the MTSOs were paying their MTs more.

So if the company can get rid of their "older" MTs who were hired in at a higher rate, they can then replace them with "newer" MTs at today's lower rates.

And yes, I do see this type of thing happening in companies today.

What I said, not what you read - Jolly MT

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I don't believe I said "older" as in chronologic age, but in MT years is what I said.

And no, I'm not a "suit". I've been in the field of MT a very, very long time and worn just about every hat to be worn.

I've also done a personal study (as in hired by) 33 companies in the last 5 years and just have to say my observations don't support what seems to be the experience of a couple of people on this forum. When I apply, I usually hear something within 48 hours, even if it's just an email saying my resume was received.

As I stated earlier, I have 4 job offers this week alone, pay ranging from 8.5 to 11 cpl.

I'm not special. I'm a good MT but there are many who are much better than I am, I'm sure. I'm an "old" MT in that I have years of experience and can do anything put in front of me. I've taken jobs for varying points of pay so I can observe how work is routed, how management behaves, etc.

I realize some of you say you've been discriminated against because of your seniority in the MT field. I can't deny your reality, I can just say I haven't shared it.

Jolly can't hold a job? - Truth

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Jolly MT:  "I've also done a personal study (as in hired by) 33 companies in the last 5 years and just have to say my observations don't support what seems to be the experience of a couple of people on this forum. When I apply, I usually hear something within 48 hours, even if it's just an email saying my resume was received."

"As I stated earlier, I have 4 job offers this week alone, pay ranging from 8.5 to 11 cpl.
"


Is this a hobby of yours?   Why would anyone need to work at 33 different companies in 5 years and why are you looking for work now? 


Sorry Jolly but I don't find your statements credible.  I think you are management.  IF you are being truthful, what's up with having to have 33 jobs in 5 years and obviously you are still looking as you have had "4 job offers this week alone."  Why can't you keep an MT job? 


 


 

Keeping a job - Jolly MT
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Guess that did sound nuts, didn't it?

I'm working on an article regarding what MTSOs say they offer, what you get, how they rate with pay, treatment of their MTs.

I have an employer I've been with for many years that supports me just fine.

If I see a job listed, I apply. This allows me to see the testing procedure, hear from recruiters, and observe the hiring process.
I would like to read the article when you've finished it - MT
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Most of us read forums and we know that a lot of what is said is just silly. We look at the name-calling and outrageous complaints and accusations and we hear the whining. We develop a way to know if a person is credible or not. We don't believe everything we hear, because in many cases we have just one disgruntled person who posts over and over, using the same, easily identifiable communication skills. Their style and attitude speak louder than their words, and they lack credibility.

This is a really tough economy overall and our industry is no exception. There are some real problems, but I don't think they are the ones we see continued threads about. My own opinion is that there are people who have done very poor work and it is catching up with them because of the environment we live in right now.

I would enjoy reading your article when you've finished, to see what you have discovered in doing your research.
Article - RLee
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So you are actually "wasting" their time by applying for all these postions for personal research work. One thing to consider - for every job you apply for and are not interested in accepting that is taking time away from them testing and interviewing serious job seekers. Just a thought - good luck with your article though.
Great point RLee - I suspect the research is bogus though - Why would someone do this?
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Personal research to write an article while taking jobs away from MTs? What's in it for Jolly? What market is there for research of this kind?

Just a thought - I don't think Jolly is credible.
On top of that - RLee
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It seems that 5 years is a lot of time to write an article. I wonder if Jolly is getting paid for this type of reaearch and if not - like you stated - what is in for her??? Just sounds a little strange to me.
I suspect Jolly is an MTSO manager swiping at MTs - What a ridiculous premise
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The question now is how low will an MTSO manager/owner go and why do they feel the need to do it.  No way, no how does someone spend FIVE years doing research for a paper.  Jolly must think MTs are really, really stupid. 


Jolly should go back to clown school where she belongs.  Tongue out

I share your same thoughts -33 companies in 5 years??? - RLee
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on Jolly MT's remarks. WOW - 33 companies in 5 years - that is quite a track record I would not be proud of. I may be unemployed at the moment, but I have only been with one national excluding Deventure and only worked in 2 different offices - one I might add for an extended period of time (17 plus years). Just a rebuttle about some of Jolly's remarks to a post I started this week. It's like calling the kettle black.

Trend is MTSO can pick and choose from MTs - Been there and done that

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There is an arrogance in certain companies because they know an MT can easily be replaced. They do not respect MT.

They "are not out to get us" - they just don't value us.

MTs cannot make their situation better as long as there are some who are willing to take their place at a lesser rate of pay (for example MTs in India) unless we suck it in when it comes to abuses by MTSO. You are living in an unrealistic dream world if you think MTs can do battle with companies who look at MTs as a dime a dozen, one size fits all and do not value us as people who bring income into their company.

There are companies who value excellence and the MTs who do excellent work - Just like anywhere else

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You always have and always will have the sleazes, but there also are companies with values. They do still exist. MTs who do good work make money for MTSOs and the wise MTSOs know that. Sure, there are the ones that don't care about anything but money, but there are also MTs who are sloppy and unmotivated. It's a two-way street. They deserve each other.

The best MTs working for the best MTSOs don't talk about it because they like it that way. They don't want the lazy MTs beating down their doors.

they also don't want MTs who want to make at least as much as they did a year or two ago... - dc

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...you know--like those lazy people in EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY ON EARTH expect.

Jolly is an MT???? - I think not

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Seriously, you sound like a manager. It simply MUST be the MTs fault. Bleh. Obviously you have not experienced the problems other MTs have experienced with the nationals and the smaller companies. You are part of the problem blaming MTs for the problems in the industry. I doubt very much you are an MT.

I'm not Jolly, but I know some 'experienced' MTs I would fire in a second if I could - People make their own trouble

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Rather than continuing to play victim, why not see if you can make things better for yourself by improving your skills. Start with your communication skills and attitude, which make you sound like you've chosen to lose. Not everyone has the same experience, and I prefer to be lumped in there with the winners.

LOL - you are lumped okay. - With MTSO management

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Lots of managers and supervisors should be fired too. When MTs are hired and let go the problem is management.

MTSOs certainly **do** fire older MTs - sm

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I think that Jolly MT must wear a suit, hard to believe that you're an MT.

MTSOs replacing "older MTs" with "newer MTs" and you automatically assume that means "old age MTs"? Maybe you should have read that as "employed at the company for a longer time MTs." And yes, that usually means that the MT is probably also a bit older in age too.

This business of firing the older (longer time) workers in order to hire newer (cheaper) workers is a problem. And it's not confined to just the MT industry. It's happening all over.

On another note, I'm over 50 and after I left a particular MTSO, I did get a letter from them that was asking me, among other things, to waive all of my legal rights under the Federal age discrimination laws. Of course I didn't sign it, as they had no business asking me to sign away my legal rights. But, what does that tell you?

MTSOs can and do fire older MTs. And some of them are worried enough about it to send a letter and hope that the MT is clueless enough to sign their legal rights away.

You are right on, Jolly MT. (sm) - Former National Manager

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The MTs who are let go are the ones who do not meet requirements (production, QA) and do not follow their schedules.

There is no reason to let go of a good employee who is making the grade.

Anyone who does not believe that has not been behind the scenes watching what is happening.

If you make your required lines, if you keep your QA where it should be, if you make your hours/schedule, you will stay in your job.

Uh-Oh, the Suits are ganging up on us - just an MT

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Unless Jolly MT is Former National Manager, in which case it's just a gang of one. They do seem to think an awful lot alike though.

I guess MTSOs really don't fire their older workers even if they do make more than the newly hired MTs. I'm sure they don't mind paying the higher wages at all.

I'm sure not Jolly or a former national manager but - I would hire the best regardless

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It wouldn't matter to me if it was an experienced MT who does quality work (not all of them do) or a newer one with some excellent skills. The job of an MTSO is to get the work out. It has to be quality work and it has to be done on time. A REAL experienced MT who can do quality work is an asset. An MT who has years of bad experience and does terrible work is a liability, and makes life miserable for everyone. I see quite a few of them represented on message boards involved in calling names and making accusations rather than looking to themselves to change their own personal work situation.

If I had my own MTSO, I would hire the best I could find, regardless of how experienced they were, and I would not keep the ones who use QA as their personal assistants rather than learning to transcribe work that can be sent out without having it redone by someone else. That's what I would do.

All industries are tightening up and MT is no exception - Victim Mentality Does Not Pay The Bills

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I think the problem may be that we have swarms of MTs who flooded the market because they wanted to work from home. That's fine. I have no problem with that. The problem is, they didn't get good training and do sloppy work. I have a problem with that, because the rest of us suffer because of them.

Now, we see a tightening up in our industry. Well, we see it in all industries, of course, but we see it in MT as the sloppy work is finally catching up with them. Rather than do something about it, they complain and turn into victims. Nobody did it to them. They did it to themselves.

How you are treated by an MTSO has a lot to do with whether you are an Employee - or an Independent Contractor

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@Jolly MT


In my opinion, you may be comparing apples and oranges. 


As with so many posts on this Board, a heated discussion ensues between people who are in actually relating totally different experiences.  I really wish people would state whether they are an Employee or an Independent Contractor when they present their “I have no work” or “I have more than enough work” statements.  There really is a huge difference. 


I believe most posters are referring to Employees as opposed to Independent Contractors.  In reality, they are apples and oranges.  “Older” refers to MTs who have been in the business or, more likely, with a particular company for several years (the 15+ years of experience MTs).  “Younger” would refer to MTs with less than 5 years of experience.  Age really has nothing to do with the issue – it is experience we are talking about. 


I have to assume you are an Independent Contractor.  If not, you win the prize for being the most job-hopping Medical Transcriptionist in history – you wrote:  “I've also done a personal study (as in hired by) 33 companies in the last 5 years.”  WOW – 60 months, 33 companies – average of less than 2 months at a company.  As an employee, you would have barely gotten used to the platform in that amount of time.  As such, you really have no background to state with certainty that “long-time” or “older” TMs are NOT being discriminated against – you never stay in one place long enough to know your fellow employees and why they are fired.


I also found your original statement interesting:  “Third, what kind of sense does that make?  If an MTSO is in business to make money, they need to get the lines typed.  More experienced MTs do not, as a general rule, get paid more money than less experienced but equal to talent MTs.  In order to stay in business, you need the lines typed.  Would it not make sense to have someone already trained and doing a good job be the one doing those lines, then to fire the "good" ones so they could hire less experienced people and then have to ramp up?”


You tend to forget we are not paid hourly.  The only one benefitting from “experience” which allows us to type more lines per hour is US – the MTSO could care less.  In reality, it does not change THEIR bottom line. 


Comparing Employee to Independent Contractor:


IC – (who are TRUE IC status)  They should be experienced enough to QA their own work.  Timekeeping is not necessary because there are no overtime issues to keep track of.  Invoices are prepared by the IC and sent to the MTSO.  Sick time and vacation time are usually the responsibility of the IC to cover.   If the MTSO charges the client $0.20 per line and pays the IC $0.10, the MTSO keeps 99% of the profit because of minimal operating costs.  The MTSO wants to keep “older” ICs because they have to deal with them less and can hire fewer of them because they do produce more lines per day each. 


Employee – State and Federal laws must be adhered to.  Timekeeping of some kind is usually implemented.  Human Resources additional expenses include payroll, keeping track of PTO time earned and used, unemployment, insurance (if offered), etc.  They have to deal with problem MTs (arrive late, leave early, abuse breaks, do not meet minimum line requirements, etc).  Human Resources/Payroll take a fairly large chunk of the operating costs when employees are involved.   However, at some point, it does not matter if the MTSO has 10 MTs or 10,000 MTs.  The system is in place and most of it is computerized. 


Another overhead is QA (who are usually paid hourly).  It does not matter if there are 10 MTs or 10,000 MTs, QA has to be there for audits.  It is unreasonable to assume that just because they have more experience, “older” MTs never send blanks to QA.  There are always new dictators or bad background noise that prevent even the best MT from hearing a word.   I also believe that many QA people transcribe if there is nothing to edit. 


BOTTOM LINE – the MTSO who has Employees is only looking at what they bill the Client.  To that end, it really does not matter to them if the lines are typed by 10 MTs or 10,000 MTs.  We all have seen plenty of complaints on the Board about overhiring so that TAT is almost immediate.  Does the MTSO care that MTs are running out of work?  Of course not. 


The MTSO charges the Client the same rate, no matter what they pay the MT. 


What makes more sense to you?


You are an MTSO and want to bill $10,000 a day.  You charge your client $0.20 per line.  You need your MTs to produce 50,000 lines per day.  Since QA is paid hourly, that overhead is already calculated into your minimum daily requirement in order to make the profit you want to make. 


Your options:


OPTION 1:


You hire 50 “older” MTs producing 1,000 minimum lines per day each, which will get you your 50,000 lines per day.  You pay your experienced MTs 0.09 per line.   Some may call in sick or request time off, so you need to make sure the others produce more than minimum lines to make up the difference.  TAT may become an issue, resulting in possible Overtime. 


Your Billing (50,000 lines x 0.20) = $10,000


Your Payment to the experienced MTs (50,000 lines x 0.09)  = $4,500


YOUR GROSS PROFIT:  $5,500


OPTION 2: 


You hire 100 “younger” part-time MTs, producing 500 minimum lines per day each.  You pay your less experienced MTs 0.07 per line.  Even if some call in sick, most already produce more than 500 lines per day, so no problem.  Plenty of MTs always working, so TAT is usually not an issue.  No Overtime ever needs to be paid. 


Your Billing (50,000 lines x 0.20) = $10,000


Your Payment to the less experienced MTs (50,000 lines x 0.07) = $3,500


YOUR GROSS PROFIT:  $6,500


Since we are paid by the line, being experienced and faster benefits us – it has no influence on the MTSO’s billing.  If you give the exact same dictation to an experienced MT and an inexperienced MT, in 9 out of 10 cases, the only difference in the final product is that the experienced MT will probably type it faster.  The inexperienced MT will take whatever time is required to research anything they do not understand.  Even if the report typed by the inexperienced MT ends up going to QA, the overhead for QA is already factored into the overhead of the MTSO. 


So, to answer your question:  “Would it not make sense to have someone already trained and doing a good job be the one doing those lines, then to fire the "good" ones so they could hire less experienced people and then have to ramp up?”


Actually NO – as far as the MTSO is concerned, it does not make any difference.  If anything, they would prefer the less experienced people if they can pay them less per line.  After all, they are not employing us so that we can have a comfortable living – they are employing us so that they can live in luxury. 


So, although there is no way to “prove” that MTSOs are not hiring or are actually firing employees who are “older” MTs, there is also no way to logically prove they do not discriminate.  As in all industries, there is age discrimination.  Why would anyone think Medical Transcription would buck that “trend” when it is evident everywhere else? 


JUST MY OPINION. 


 

Not 100% sure I agree with your logic but - sm

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that was a GREAT post, very well thought out, not emotional, and with detailed explanations.

Please... post more on this board.

Great post - Jolly worked 33 jobs in 5 years? LOL - 4 job offers this week?.

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Is Jolly bragging or complaining? What is up with job skills that Jolly would need to keep switching jobs?

You've misinpretreted Jolly's message and demonstrated that poor attitude we've been - Experienced MT But Always Learning

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Thanks, Jolly, for your excellent information.
What's Jolly's message? She worked 33 jobs in 5 years? - Has 4 job offers this week?
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I dunno for sure but it sounds like Jolly isn't credible or she has some issues doing MT work. I suspect she is management simply because no MT works 33 jobs in 5 years and is still looking for work.

I call Jolly a bogus poster who is probably a manager or she is flat out a Very Bad MT.

Who does this - 33 jobs in 5 years? 4 offers in a week. What a joke Jolly is. LOL.

Perhaps we should call her Jobby instead of Jolly? - Just Kidding (nm)

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x

Thanks - Jolly MT

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for that well-thought-out reply.

In part, I agree with you. But just in part.

I've dealt with both "new" and "old" MTs. (I'm an "old" MT myself.) My cohorts are many MTSOs or once were MTSOs. While your logic sounds logical, there is so much more work that goes into having inexperienced MTs than experienced ones.

In my amateur study of MT companies, I've had no problems getting hired as an "old" MT (one with many years experience) and being offered, for the most part, not always, a comparable wage.

I've been hired as an employee and hired as an IC, so I've seen both sides of the coin.

My experience, and that of those I talk to on a daily basis, just does not support good/old/experienced MTs being fired UNLESS they were not doing their jobs.

A lot of them need to be fired - and will be as our industry continues to Transform - And it is about time they were fired

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We've had some very poor MTs for a very long time. Finally we're seeing some companies that are realizing that quality counts. I really believe that in a few years only the best will have jobs, and these will be the ones who can do it all, not just one specialty or just clinic or just discharge summaries or ER reports. All of it done well. That is the way I see it happening right now, and I'm a little glad about that. It's about time.
Back in the old days when a new boss came in they always cleaned up - See message
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The first thing that happened would be everyone would hate them and decide they wouldn't cooperate. They would all go to lunch and break together and plot against the new boss. A few people would just keep doing their job to the very best of their ability.

Then, the boss would call a meeting and announce that several people were let go. The boss would let everyone know that more people may be fired, and we all had a choice. We could choose to be part of the solution and do our jobs well and lose the 'attitude' or we could leave now. Some left. The rest of us had great jobs. I see that happening now.

Excellent Message! - nm

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nm

Thank you for this post - Really informative and articulate

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I'll confess that at first glance I was like "Too long, won't read," but the first couple of sentences grabbed my attention and I decided it was well worth my time to read.

I have no clue who you are, but you obviously have both business and common sense, and I hope you post more.

Thank you for sharing your obviously well-researched information with us.

MTSOs firing good MTs - here is why

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I am an "old" MT who makes 12 cpl and can produce 1500 lines per day, so the MTSO is paying me $180 per day.

Two "new" MTs can produce 750 lines per day and can be hired in at 8 cpl, so the MTSO is paying them $120 per day.

Same number of lines produced, but different pay. So which one do you think the MTSO is going to choose? If they choose the two "new" MTs at 8 cpl, the MTSO has just cut their costs by about 40%.

So this is why the MTSO is firing "old" MTs.

And anybody like Jolly MT who says it isn't happening is wrong because it IS happening.

Unless you use your valuable experience to make yourself more marketable - No victims here

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If you have something better to offer than they do, you win. The problem is, too many so-called experienced MTs are not producing as much better quality work as they might like to believe. Change that and you will be better positioned for the changes that have always happened, are happening, and will always happen in our industry. Make yourself more valuable. It's as simple as that.

Making an old MT more valuable - this is double-speak

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I wish you management type people would stop trying to argue this and coming up with all kinds of excuses. Just exactly how would you propose for me to "make myself more valuable"?

I am an "old" MT and I do it all. All work types and all specialites, from little 1-doctor clinics to huge teaching hospitals and everything in between. I am an expert on ESL. Never had a QA score less than 99.7%. Able to work on multiple different platforms and systems, ASR included.

But even if the MTSO hires a new QA at 3 cpl to go along with those two "new" 8 cpl MTs that are replacing me, the MTSO will still come out ahead financially. Which means that I, the "old" MT, still gets fired.

So let me ask again, exactly what would you propose for me to "make myself more valuable."

It can't be experience or quality of work because I already have that. It can't be new technology skills because I'm already right there on the cutting edge. And it can't be flexibility because I'm probably the most flexible person you've ever met, able and willing to work everything from banker's hours to the late night shift and weekends.
More valuable - to them - sm - anon
[ In Reply To ..]
This sounds to me like MTSO double-speak for " take a pay cut " and you will be more valuable to ME (the MTSO).


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