A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Anyone know why semi-private hospital rooms are still allowed under HIPAA? - Anon

Posted: Oct 06, 2010

I work for one of the big MTSOs, take annual HIPAA training, and know I am subject to fines or discharge for disclosing someone elseâ��s medical info, either intentionally or accidentally such as via an incorrect C/C. I am therefore baffled as to why hospitals are still allowed to put patients in semiprivate rooms where HIPAA rules just seem to go out the window. For example, just yesterday I returned from a 23-hour overnight after an outpatient procedure at a well-regarded acute-care hospital. After surgery I was sent to the floor and put in a semiprivate room with another female admitted for nonsurgical reasons. There was just a curtain between us so I (and my visitors when I had them) could not help but hear everything that went on: Her many conversations with doctors and nurses, all the medications they gave her and the reasons for them, including some which they explained were for her alcohol withdrawal, all their readings of her vitals, etc. They had discussions about her quitting smoking and attending AA. None of my visitors were asked to leave the room during these exchanges, and I was on complete bed rest so could not. Without wanting to, we all knew this ladyâ��s full medical history by the time I was discharged. So now I wonder, why are some healthcare professions, including ours, held to the letter of this privacy law, yet hospitals are allowed to continue with practices that allow sensitive issues to be discussed openly in front of perfect strangers? Why havenâ��t the enforcers of HIPAA in their zeal for healthcare privacy addressed this gaping hole in their firewall, and have instead focused on trivia? Any comments/ideas?

Beauracratic system of moronic proportions - >:-(

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I believe that beautifully illustrates the HIPAA racket for what it is, a beauracratic system of management that has done nothing to protect patient's privacy & safety as they claim and everything to add to our growing out-of-control healthcare costs in this nation. Enormous administrative costs in supporting, implementing, enforcing such duplicity. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid...

No, just that in an imperfect world we often have to - settle for a cup half full. NM

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x

Of course. How imperfect of me to speak otherwise - Shamed

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NM

How profound... - Never thought of it that way...

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I suppose because I keep thinking of it as this: "Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised."

Well, unprofoundly then, I'm guessing unprotected words spoken in front of - NM

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a few random people are a whole lot less likely to be reported to an employer than written words held by the insurance company the employing company gives its business to. (A lot of people are fired proactively to keep next year's premiums down, and cut off their pensions, etc., but that's not the reason they're given of course.)

Unprotected verbal, as opposed to medical record, words are certainly not at all likely to be stolen, singly or en mass, by or sold to a crime syndicate. Unless you're Bill Gates sharing a room, of course. Governments aren't the only organizations building databases.

A question worth pondering when wondering about HIPAA is why would criminals bother trying to break into, for instance, bank records (banks actually do a pretty good job overall of protecting our accounts) when they can just purchase or hijack information for electronic access from unprotected patient records?

I guess as a patient you know that someone - sm

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else is in the room and you can always request the doctor/nurses, etc., not discuss your condition/care, etc., in front of other people. With you knowing that the other people are there, I guess you are in a way giving consent for them to hear everything.

Doctor's offices are the same way. The walls are not very thick, and I know at my doctor's office I can hear everything that is said in the next exam room.

Semi-private/private rooms - Anonymous

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I would think that a private room would be very expensive and would have to be medically justified in order to receive reimbursement from an insurance provider. If you think a HIPAA violation occurred, you can always report the facility. People in emergency room waiting areas hear and see a lot too. I guess if the patient you mention didn't want visitors in the room while her information was being discussed, she could have asked them to leave. The hospital was probably just operating within their limitations. You didn't give her name here, but you disclosed quite a bit of information in your post, don't think I'd get on a message board and do that. To me that's a bit like discussing the patients you transcribe on without giving their names. I don't know the entire law so really don't know what constitutes a HIPAA violation, but you raised some good questions.

HIPAA and semi-private room - jeannieb

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The purpose of HIPAA is to avoid discrimination due to a person's health status. Athough as professionals we shouldn't disclose information about a patient, the conversation in a semi-private room may reveal some medical information, but you will never hear sickle cell, HIV/AIDS, or alcohol information discussed unless the patient signs a waiver. Just by accepting a semi-private room, the patient agrees to the loss of some privacy. We live in a "real" world where not all can be hidden.

Your rationality reminds me of... - See message

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â��A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then mount the stump and make a speech for conservation.â��

Rationality? - Anonymous

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What?????

Give it up, Anonymous. Some people insist on finding - enemies to attack and HIPAA has joined the list.

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And anybody who thinks it's a good thing even if late coming.

HIPAA - Anonymous

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Don't think I said I thought it was a good thing, it is what it is.

HIPAA - smpar

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People are not objecting to HIPAA per se. It's the silliness/absurdity of MTSO's oh-so-important administrative personnel who apparently think MTs are stupid and try to use this as a boogeyman to scare MTs with, especially when such obvious hypocrisy abounds, i.e. the semi-private hospital room example. (In addition to that elephant-in-the-room---substandard input/dictation by some MDs who obviously are not particularly concerned about their role regarding HIPAA violations.) MTs should take the time to actually READ this federal law--particularly that little detail called "malicious intent" and they will laugh the next time some self-important administrative type starts pontificating about HIPAA.

SMPAR - Anonymous

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Acutally, there have been HIPAA violations among MTs and others in on-site situations where nurses and MAs were caught accessing information on family and acquaintances. I am familiar with an MT whose employment was terminated because she discussed a patient case in public. Anyone in a home situation where others can access the information on their computer should take HIPAA seriously. I don't know if the MTSOs are trying to scare people. We take it very seriously on-site. None of us have control over what takes place in hospital rooms or offshore, but we do have control over our own behavior.

Physicans all carry E&O insurance. MTSOs have no - Pragmatist

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choice but to try to inform us--their own insurance/business practice requires due diligence on this, plus the regulations themselves, plus just basic human decency.

Smpar, I don't get your meaning regarding the doctrine of malicious intent--?? You're talking about Level IV offences, or ?

BTW, I used to read commercial insurance policies for a living and it's downright cruel to recommend anyone try to read what we refer to as "HIPAA"--a blanket term covering a whole slew of different regulations, most not applying to us at all, and more coming all the time as they're finalized or amended, plus state laws. Even for amusement. A HIPAA class or careful home ed would be a very good idea, though.

I was in a 4-bed room for almost a month - how would you like that?

[ In Reply To ..]
It is also a county hospital and a teaching level 1 trauma center. The only time I had a private room was when I was in ICU for about 10 days, then moved to his room with 4-beds. I could hear everyone's medical information too, but I did notice that most of the docs and nurses did keep their voices down, I assume to respect the privacy of each of us. I don't think these hospitals are going to convert 4-bed rooms or semi-private to private as it would be too costly. Yes, it is a good point about HIPPA, but wonder just how many rights we actually have when it comes to the patients' bill of rights.

Hah! At 19 I was in an 8-bed room after giving birth - Pragmatist

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to my first child, my first experience with a hospital ever. All day long a stream of young men was coming through to pull up my sheets, examine, and take notes while I lay there surprised, and then bemused. They were so earnest, trying not to look at ME, that I decided they had to be students or something. :) After a little of this, though, I no longer bothered to care when someone's husband wandered by at the wrong time.

Regarding the type of privacy that needs more than just a sheet thrown over it, all our charts were hung at eye level on the wall of the hall outside the room for anyone to read. This has been common practice for decades, of course, but the exposure of personal information shocked me a bit even as a kid.

It's gotten so ridiculous, you could make a case for - a HIPAA violation

[ In Reply To ..]
just by driving down the street and seeing someone's car you recognize pulling into a doctor's office parking lot.

For instance... because I saw her, now I know that my second-grade teacher has an orthopedic problem. Did she want me to know that? Do I have a right to know that?

I have also theorized that doctors' offices should issue paper bags to everyone who walks into the waiting room--to put over their heads, so no one will know who they're sharing the waiting room with.

It's absolutely silly, of course.

re. It's gotten ridiculous... - smpar

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You are right, of course. And MTs should take the time to actually read this law. As laws should be, it is rooted in common sense and a most important factor is involved---malicious intent. If someone is maliciously selling or intentionally sharing someone's medical information, then of course they can and should beheld liable. But it is patently ridiculous to suggest that MTs, simply in the course of doing their job (and often with incomplete and/or confusing input/information from the dictator and their employers with which to go on)can be held legally responsible. Would like to see such a case hold up in court. MTSOs try to scare their employees with nonsense.

Semi-private rooms and HIPAA - Nell

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Glad you brought this up and you are right. I guess, as usual, doctors are exempt from these regulations, in more ways than one. I once worked for a transcription company that said you could be in violation of HIPAA laws if you even had the name of a patient (no other info) written on a piece of paper on your desk. Everything had to be shred. And if you typed the wrong patient info on a report you were in violation, even though the dictator was not clear as to which John Doe he was talking about, there were 8 in the hospital system to choose from and it was your job to guess the right one, based on the information given to you (which could be wrong) or the lack of information but you knew which date they were seen. If you ask me, they have blown this HIPAA stuff way out of proportion. Yet people are allowed to type from home with nobody regulating that. It is not exactly under lock and key.

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