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Does Anyone Know When Andrews Will Begin Their ICD-10 Program? - See Other Questions

Posted: Jul 12, 2011

I was wondering if anyone has heard the date when Andrews will begin their ICD-10 program.

I also have been told that is critically important to know both ICD-9 and ICD-10. Do you agree, and why?

Their instructor is an AHIMA-Approved ICD-10 Trainer - MT/Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't know the answer, but it is only going to take a very short update from what they are teaching now to be ready for it. If you know both 9 and 10, you are going to be ahead of the game.

I was told that they plan to offer some kind of very short/not-so-expensive course at the appropriate time. You wouldn't need to do that until the time comes, but of course, I don't know when that will be.

Maybe Redpen will come by and answer the question. I'd love to know the answer too.

ICD-10 - Redpen

[ In Reply To ..]
We will be phasing in ICD-10 during 2012 and 2013. Students graduating toward the beginning of that time will be able to get their certifications out of the way in ICD-9-CM, work, and then do ICD-10 by mid-summer 2013. We'll flip-flop at the appropriate point so that graduates who will certify and begin working in ICD-10 will focus on that, with enough ICD-9 to tide them over when they need it.

There is also a little more A&P and pathophysiology needed for ICD-10, which we've been implementing.

One of the first things we decided in our planning -- well, we didn't actually have to decide anything, it was a given -- was that we had to support all our graduates, past and present. We feel it's just a part of our original committment to them. (I was invited to post, remember, so I can engage in a bit of shameless self-promotion.)

Do you need both? I think so. I would not want to be in your shoes if you didn't have both. Would you want to be a 10-only coder who has to code a big pile of old cases? Or has to figure out what's wrong with some rejected claims done in ICD-9. Or, at some point when a load of data gets pulled from a couple of years back and you're trying to figure out which is what, I think a bit of ICD-9 would come in handy. How about converting someone's charge ticket? Might be handy to be able to do that yourself, hmm?

I think that when you are looking for a job, there would be a little competitive advantage to knowing both, and I'm all for giving students a competitive edge. "I'm a recent grad, but I am certified AND I can work in both 9 and 10."

Think about it this way, coders who are working now will either retire or learn ICD-10. There will probably be some jobs opening up. You'll want to appear as much like those coders who learn ICD-10 as possible.

This might sound like a huge undertaking. I keep hearing people saying they don't want to learn BOTH, as if they were Spanish and Chinese. It's not like that. It's more like learning Puerto Rican Spanish and Mexican Spanish. There are variations, but it is still much the same. If you speak one, you can pick up the other quickly.

Remember that we don't memorize codes. Learning to code is not memorizing volumes of stuff--it's just learning how to look up codes successfully. If you do it correctly, you will end up in the right place no matter which code set you use. I have both code books here and I just looked up an example in ICD-10 for one of our students. In ICD-9, there was only "Rupture, muscle, nontraumatic 728.83." ICD-10 actually listed this according to which muscle it was. Then, when I looked up that code in the other part of the book, it broke it down by right, left, and unspecified. So, now if I'm coding a spontaneous rupture of a shoulder muscle, the best I can do is 728.83. In ICD-10, I can also say it's the shoulder and which shoulder it is. Did I have to know anything to do this? No, I just looked it up.

The diagnosis code sets are very similar. The numbers are different, but that's not a problem at all. They begin with a letter, too, like M or P, kind of like a little useful monogram. The guidelines for coding are a little different, but it's not like they're from Mars. It's not like they aren't written down, either.

Now, the procedure codes in ICD-10 are much more exciting, err, fun. If you code outpatient, you will still use CPT procedure codes; those are not changing. Inpatient coders will use the ICD-10 procedure codes. Those are different enough that you'll want to spend some time with them. They are certainly not impossible. Most people I know who have tried them have a little panic attack at first, but on second look they start thinking ICD-10-PCS is quite a nifty thing. You do get to use your brain. There is a little learning involved in this, but it's interesting.

So, that's the story. Really, it is not a big deal. Everyone will do fine with this. I also think that former MTs will do especially well with ICD-10-PCS, the procedures. They will be able to tear apart operative reports and code them blindfolded.

So, here's my question for all of you. If you're a working coder, what do you want in a course? Just the code set? Would you want to upgrade your A&P and/or pathophysiology? Let me know. Ask your coworkers, too.

Thanks again for asking me to post. I enjoyed the visit and look forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

Interesting Question, Redpen! - My Answer

[ In Reply To ..]
As a CCS and/or CPC, I think I would want you to design some kind of update for me of the differences, more than a seminar, but not as long as a course. I would have to learn it in my spare time, and it couldn't cost too much.

Would you have a prerequisite for your update-to-ICD-10 course at Andrews?

Thanks! - Redpen

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you! That is helpful! Yes, more than a seminar, but not "a course," per se. Something that would build on what you already know and result in the ability to use the new code set competently. Cost is always a concern.

How many hours of training do you think will be required for ICD-9-CM? And, if you do inpatient procedure coding, for ICD-9-PCS?

How many CEUs will your certifying organization(s) require? Will there be a test?

Prerequisite? Be a coder? Know ICD-9-CM?

What do you think the prerequisites should be?

I like the idea of knowing both ICD-9 and ICD-10 - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

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