A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

IC versus employee AGAIN - Confused

Posted: Mar 26, 2013

I just started as an IC with a company I really like but they want me to work 8 hours a day. No problem. But it has to be a set time each day on a schedule submitted in advance and I have to let them know in advance if it changes. Now the reason I work as an IC and give up the benefits is so that I have flexibility. I had thought that as long as I work the number of hours during the morning or afternoon they want, I can't be held to a set schedule. Why do companies ALWAYS think they can have it both ways? And the pay isn't that great, either.

Then give them the schedule you want, some morning, - some afternoon, or

[ In Reply To ..]
Tell them you will complete all 8 hours between the hours of X am and X pm.

See what they say.

Did that... - Confused

[ In Reply To ..]
Yes, I just emailed them back and told them exactly that. I'll let ya'll know what the answer is. I am concerned because a few years ago I left a company where I was an IC because they expected me to be nailed to the computer at exact times and they fired me when my computer broke and I wasn't available for their schedule. And it was a shame because I loved the work and was good at it. It seems to be a common failing on the part of many companies to understand this difference between IC and employee.

IC - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Well, they are asking YOU to submit a schedule, I don't think that is too much to ask. They have to know what time everyone is working, so that they can keep accounts covered. If they had a "work when you want" policy, then work would probably get behind. I DO think they should just hire employee status, so that they can give you the schedule they want you to have, but being an IC doesn't necessarily mean you work when you want. You have to make a mutual agreement with the company and that agreement can include times or hours that is agreed upon by both. If you can't come to an agreement, then they can find an IC that can.

My Thoughts Exactly - see msg

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm thinking the exact same thing. The company is not setting your schedule, you are. All they are asking is for you to be there when YOU said you would be there.

Do you not demand the same respect when you hire an IC to do work in your house? Can they come and go willy-nilly, not giving you a formal commitment as to when the work will be completed?

If you cannot come to an agreement with the company, then they certainly have the right to let you go, just as you would have the right to let someone go if you and the IC couldn't come to an agreement.

yes - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I expect say a plumber to come out when he says he will and complete the job in a timely manner, if he says 7 a.m. on Friday morning would not be too happy if he showed up at midnight on Sunday. But I am not his sole support, he doesn't have an ongoing relationship with me to meet his pay requirements, he doesn't have to show up at 7 every day, he doesn't have to schedule a doctor's appointment with me 2 months in advance, if one of his tools breaks, unless it is an emergency for me, I probably will not fire him and give him time to replace it and come on out, especially if I respect his work. I have called my plumber twice in the past on holidays, and yes they came out and charged dearly for the service on a holiday, also weekends. Somewhat the same, but not quite. He doesn't depend on me and a couple of other clients as his livlihood. I think the ongoing relationship situation and the fact that an MTSO wants you there at the same time every day is not an IC no matter who sets it, it is ongoing and essential to the MTSO business, which is why MT, in my opinion, for those MTSOs who require this type of scheduling, will eventually all be more of a minimum wage type of employee position.

BUT.. and a big one - Confused

[ In Reply To ..]
This is all very nice sounding but the problem is these companies are already pushing the envelope as regards employee vs. IC when it comes to the BIG problem, the IRS. An IC having control of their own hours is a vital difference if a company gets audited. These companies who do not have ICs send in their own invoices, making them submit schedules, etc. make their own lives easier but they are attracting the notice of the IRS. This is what is going to really hurt the MT companies in the long run.

you don't understand what IC means - (rampant problem)

[ In Reply To ..]

The problem I had with this arrangement - ...

[ In Reply To ..]
was that even though I fully committed to the hours I specified, half the time there was no work to do. So I was basically homebound and not making nearly enough money to justify it. I couldn't even leave the house to run an errand because my status would show offline to my MTSO and I might miss work coming in.

Relating this to the plumber analogy below: Yes, a plumber is expected to show up when promised, but we must provide him work, otherwise we're wasting his time.

Exactly! - Confused

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And the MTSO is not about to pay you for sitting there waiting for work, which they might have to do if you were an employee.

Well..... - sm

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UNFORTUNATELY, this is the industry now. We are expected to wait for work, grab it when it comes, so the MTSO looks like the "turnaround queen" and we are broke. You can take it or leave it basically, I don't think it will be changing, no matter how inconvenient or financially straining it is for us.

Well, do this. - IC2

[ In Reply To ..]
Tell whoever that you need a clause in the contract that states if there is no work, that you are free to leave your workstation and check back periodically for work. They may agree or they can find someone else who doesn't have the same issues. It is hard to really stand your ground in this industry anymore, because even though waiting for work is extremely frustrating, if you refuse to do it, there are hundreds of MTs that will do it.

If only - Confused

[ In Reply To ..]
In theory you should not have to do this because an IC contract should not include a schedule or you would be an employee. An IC is contracted to do a certain amount of a work in a given time for which they are paid and if the work is not available or they do not produce they are not paid. Of course the MTSO want to have their cake and eat it too and they had better hope that the MTs do not start complaining to the IRS.

Misconception about what an IC is - ICManiac

[ In Reply To ..]
Being an IC based on a schedule or lack of schedule is the misconception.

Being an employee versus an IC is the totality of control - who has the most of it.

If you do not like the parameters that this MTSO asks from you, you are welcome to find one more to your liking. When you have clients directly, you are allowed much more control than when you subcontract with an MTSO. The MTSO's client can and often does require 24-hour coverage in their contract with the MTSO. The MTSO is saying it needs coverage at particular hours to comply with the client's requirements. That element does not commit you to being an employee versus an IC.

IBM hires independent contractors as programmers. They call tell them what time of the day or night they want them to work. You need to look at the total picture before you say the deal you have is in violation of IRS guidelines.

Exactly. - ICLady

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People have the misconception that being an IC means you are COMPLETELY in charge and can work when you want, do what you want, etc. That just isn't the case. Being an IC you can definitely refuse to comply with what the company needs from an IC, and then you can move on and find a different company to IC for. Companies state what they need from an IC and you decide if that works for you or does not.

NOT what I am saying... - Confused

[ In Reply To ..]
I SAID that a schedule is only one part of the IC picture that MTSOs are ignoring at their peril. There are other facets also that they are disregarding because it is easier for themselves. Why don't you READ and think about what I said rather than just jumping on one thing?

I read your first post and some of the others - ICManiac

[ In Reply To ..]
In your first post, the only issue you addressed was that of the schedule that lacked flexibility and (as an after thought it seems), the pay "isn't that great either."

Before you begin to jump on someone else for replying to the words coming out of your mouth, you may want to re-read your own post. Here is what you said verbatim:

"I just started as an IC with a company I really like but they want me to work 8 hours a day. No problem. But it has to be a set time each day on a schedule submitted in advance and I have to let them know in advance if it changes. Now the reason I work as an IC and give up the benefits is so that I have flexibility. I had thought that as long as I work the number of hours during the morning or afternoon they want, I can't be held to a set schedule. Why do companies ALWAYS think they can have it both ways? And the pay isn't that great, either."

I stand by my reply to you about trying to equate the application of a schedule to being an employee versus IC.

You STILL didn't read it all - Confused by all this

[ In Reply To ..]
Like most discussions on this board, this is degenerating into silliness and nitpicking. If you had read the WHOLE discussion, you would have seen my second response where I referred to different facets of the MT IRS problem. But, enough said. This whole thing is giving me a migraine and I have typing to do.

okay this time I read every single one of them - ICManiac

[ In Reply To ..]
and I didn't see that anything degenerated other than you don't seem to like most of the responses you are getting. You seem to be offended about MTSOs treating ICs like employees because the MTSOs ask for a schedule, but then may not provide enough work when you are working that set schedule, of is it just the flexibility of the schedule? Or rather is it MTSOs who skirt IRS regulations? A lot was said, but things kept coming back to the expectation of a schedule by an MTSO on someone mis-classified as an employee.

A true IC does not have only one client. I have several. They don't tell me when they are going for a week to their condo in Mexico and not to expect work that week, and I've learned to re-focus my efforts on other clients when I get that kind of breather from one client. If an IC's computer breaks down, it is not the responsibility of the MTSO to wait around. I have had that happen to me, and I can be back up and running the same day thanks to rent a centers who rent out computers by the week. That buys me time to figure out what to do with either repairing or replacing.

I treat myself like a business, and I think that is the point everyone here was trying to make. If you have problems getting enough work from the MTSO that requires a schedule from you, as an independent contractor meeting IRS regulations, you should have one or more other client that you can spend that empty time working for. If your computer breaks and that is how you make your money, it is your responsibility to get back up and running with as little impact on your clients, or you lose that business.

It may seem like I'm picking on you and defending the MTSO, but what I hope you take away from all of this is the point that if you want to be treated like an independent contractor, start treating yourself like one first and accept work from those who will treat you that way. They cannot mistreat you if you do not let them.

A voice of reason! - see msg

[ In Reply To ..]
Finally, a voice of pure reason! The OP didn't state in her original note anything about running out of work. It was all about how she wanted to come and go as she pleased.

I'm amazed at how many IC people think that they call ALL the shots. No, that's arrogant. You do not call all the shots. Someone is hiring your services to do a job, and if you can't deliver to their requests, then they can fire you.

That being said, you ARE allowed to set your own schedule. You asked what the big difference is (besides benefits) between that and employee. Well, as an employee, tecnically they can tell you what schedule to work. They don't usually, but they can.

FYI: I think you are one of the reasons the MTSOs don't like to hire ICs. Many of you think you are gods or something.

IC status - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
My brother builds houses. There is a local builder that calls him and subcontracts the job to him, when he has too many. My brother builds the house and he hires independent contractors to come in and do various jobs that pertain to building the house. He works 8-6, so the independent contractors have to be available from 8-6 in order to carry out what jobs that he needs performed. He lets the IC know what he needs done and the time that he needs it done and it is up to them if they choose to accept the contract position, or pass and find something they prefer. I don't believe the house would get built if everyone just came when they felt like it, just because they are not employee status.

The clients have to have the work done in a certain amount of time, so if everyone with IC status had the idea that they can work when they feel like it, take off of work on a whim, just because they are IC status, how would work get accomplished? As an IC, an MTSO can definitely tell you that they need an IC between 8-5 or whatever, and it is up to YOU as the IC if you accept that or not. Now, if you are working 8-5, according to a contract, the MTSO cannot tell an IC "Okay, you are required to work four extra hours tonight" as an employer would be able to . They can ASK you if you could do more, but since that is outside your contract, that would be your choice. Schedules are not forbid, they just must be agreed upon and strictly carried out, rather than changed or whatever at the whim of an employer. You are just working within a contract, the contract can say whatever BOTH parties agree upon.

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