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Can someone compare Andrews to AHIMA Basic Coding Course? - MT2MC


Posted: Feb 07, 2013

they call this a 12-course basics.  it says 2000, plus you need an additional 290 +225 for the required anatomy and physiology course, which you must at least get a C before you can proceed with the coding.  they also suggest 35 a year for becoming a member.  books are also a lot extra, looks like.  

says 4 clusters of 15-week courses, that is 60 weeks, yes?  

anyone have experience with this course?  call me gun-shy, but this is the organization who threw MT under the bus and now thrives on the membership of MTs in India and other countries.  I am a bit leary and weary...but if it is worth it, I would consider it.  

why are courses offered that won't get you actual jobs, though.  I don't get all these 10- to 12-month courses.  does this mean you really need both a 2-year HIT degree, and the coding basics to get an actual job coding you think?  

I have 9 years before I can retire; all I am asking of this great country, is to be able to make a living wage until then, that's all.  I have read mixed thoughts about even coding not being here that long.  hopefully the younger generation will figure out how to make money, other than service jobs, as technology makes all of us obsolete.  at my age, there really is not much else to do other than work at McD's or Walmart.  MT was great because I didn't need a college education, but I certainly was smart enough had I ever been able to afford it, and was not satisified with just working in service or retail.  unfortunately, I was happy to just get by for 22 years on what I made from MT so I could pursue my 'real life' - and never considered this could ever happen here, but now here I am...I can't find a place to 'fit in' and be a 'worthwhile' working member in society.  

http://www.ahima.org/continuinged/campus/courseinfo/cb.aspx

AHIMA - Anonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
AHIMA is not the organization who threw MT under the bus, I think you are referring to AHDI, formerly AAMT. It sounds as if you have a lot of issues related to your career, so I won't address those. Someone else will need to answer your questions about the coding course. I do know that AHIMA is well regarded and is an advocate for the coding profession.

oh, TY. too many initials - I got AHDI confused with AHIMA - MT2MC

[ In Reply To ..]
I appreciate you correcting that.

That makes me more excited about that program.

An additional note - Anonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
You are going to need to pay membership dues regardless of which certification you obtain and you will have to get a number of continuing ed credits every year to maintain certification, it is pretty much required for coding. You mentioned concern about anatomy and physiology. AHIMA requires that you pass a college level course with a C or better as a prerequisite, Andrews and the other schools teach it as part of their program. Either way, you need to know it. Which course are you referring to that won't get you a job? You mention how smart you are, so these courses should not be a problem for you with your MT experience. One thing I did want to mention about AHIMA, is that you will need a proctor for your chapter exams, so that would be something to consider. I think that Andrews charges around $3500 for its course but it includes books and all the learning materials you will need. Again, I can't compare actual curriculum as I did not take either course, both schools have excellent reputations. 60 weeks is not very long, just a little over a year. If you code, it is an ongoing learning process, you don't just take a course and call it good. Codes change and rules and requirments change all the time, so you will need to keep studying even after you have a job. I hope I offered you some food for thought, I remembered more after my initial post.

You do not need an AHIMA membership - to test or hold the certification.

[ In Reply To ..]
The exam just costs less if you do.

You MUST be a member of AAPC, though.

CEUs are available at low and no cost, so that should not be a factor in any decision.

Andrews is serious about their students - coderstudent

[ In Reply To ..]
They go in prepared to pass students for their cert's. Linda didn't go in haphazard to start a school willy nilly. No, the school is not accredited.. but that's b/c they want to teach it their way.

If going into learning coding, then go in with the best bang for the buck.

If you DO go to Andrews, make sure to take it seriously and study hard. Or else there are consequences! and pay attn. to details and the syllabus!

Yes, learning coding does take time - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't understand what you mean by "courses that won't get you actual jobs." The material presented in both the Andrews and AHIMA programs -- they're very close in content -- is necessary for successful work in coding.

Yes, you need med terms, A&P, pathophysiology, knowledge of the medical record, reimbursement, pharmacology, and coding, and everything else they teach. If you are comparing it with the AAPC's 100-hour course, which does not include all of that, bear in mind that the AAPC's course is intended for physician office coders and not for coders who can code both for physician services and hospital facilities.

Do you need both a 2-year degree in HIT and a coding course? No, not at all. To code, you need what is presented in a coding course. That same material is presented in both RHIT and RHIA programs. When you take a coding course, you cover the part that pertains to coding itself. The RHIT and RHIA programs contain more material about different health information areas. The problem is that a lot of RHIT and RHIA students graduate and still can't code--maybe they just squeaked by in college--so if they want to code, they have to study it over again. (Coding can pay more than other HIA fields, so the additional expense involved in taking a second coding course is worth it.)

As for a comparison of the two programs, the content is very similar. Andrews includes A&P rather than requiring you to take it before registering. Andrews also teaches coding a little differently, focusing first on outpatient coding and then covering the same basic material again as it pertains to inpatient coding. The AHIMA course covers the material in typical college fashion, covering coding once, with a textbook that mostly focuses on inpatient coding.

I think you need to look closely at what the programs prepare you for. The AHIMA program says it prepares you for the CCA. Andrews goes beyond that, with the expectation that students need the CPC and the CCS. I'm not sure how you factor that into your cost, but you need to. Lots of posts here have been about the CCA.

AHIMA Coding Basics takes 15 x 4 weeks, so yes it takes 60 weeks. The A&P will take another 15, to be done before you begin that, so you're looking at 75 weeks. Also keep in mind that you must complete 3 college-level courses every 15 weeks. That's kind of a lot, and their completion dates are firm. If you do not complete one by even one day, you have to take it over again. And pay for it again. The reason they allow students to take courses a la carte, instead of only in 15-week, 3-course modules, is because many students have trouble doing 3 at once.

Andrews is more flexible. They have suggested timeframes and I think they expect to see work completed according to that schedule, but they aren't going to flunk you out if "life" happens to you.

Also note that the AHIMA course has no instructors. You're totally on your own with it. There is absolutely nobody to help you. They have always been very clear about that. Great organization, and it's great that they offer a way to learn coding, but I think they just don't have resources to staff that course. If they did, the cost would be far more--instructors don't come cheap.

As for cost, the two programs are very close, no matter how you pay. Andrews just includes everything -- there will be no other expenses with that. My estimates came within $50 to a few hundred no matter how I calculated it, and AHIMA actually came out to more if you had to repeat even 1 course.

Bad things happen in jobs, sometimes. It's sad what happened to you in MT. We had the same experience. But, we found a home in coding and we like it. To us, it's worthwhile. Perhaps you can look at our experience and gain some hope from it.

AAPC has CPC-Hospital certification - carjjen

[ In Reply To ..]
AAPC has a course for CPC-Hospital certification which is for outpatient hospital/facility (emergency department visits, outpatient clinic visits, same day surgeries, diagnostic testing [radiology and laboratory] and outpatient therapies (physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy and chemotherapy). Also covers services, which include evaluation and management, anesthesia, surgical services, radiology, pathology and medicine.

CCS, CPC, CPC-H - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
So, how do you see that working? You get a CPC-H and work where? An outpatient surgery center? How many of those are there? An office? They'll think you can't do their work. A hospital?

That hospital needs you to code what is covered by the CPC and the CPC-H AND THEN INPATIENT. The CCS covers all of that. That is why we keep saying you need a course that covers all three.


correcting your post - carjjen
[ In Reply To ..]
What you said was ..... bear in mind that the AAPC's course is intended for physician office coders and not for coders who can code both for physician services and hospital facilities.....

Your post was incorrect; that's all.

TY for being so caring and passionate about your profession - MT2MC

[ In Reply To ..]
I have seriously read and considered all your posts, and appreciate all the pertinent and valuable information. It is such a big decision, perhaps just because of my age (after 50, who knows how much time one has) that is why I am cautious. It is my one last chance...

If my re-training grant will cover Andrews, it will be my first choice.

Actually, I qualify for 2 grants, 1 is a health professions grant, and the other is a senior re-training grant for a 'displaced worker' classification. My state is very particular though on what/who they will fund: It is the only thing that would stop me from going with Andrews. Unemp claims they will only fund for a school within my own state, but I am still going to make my case in a few weeks.

I am going for the government funding also for the point of it. You can't just take away people's livelihood, and leave them with nothing. I have been fighting to get something out of losing my job/living wage to overseas. This way it has to be factored in to the cost of anything saved by sending work overseas.

The coding overseas and tech threat issues - I don't want to bring them up because there are already many topics here about it; however, it is not only about losing actual jobs - it also has to do with lowering wages and eventual unfair working conditions, such as: I could work as an MT right now, but I would have to accept making less than half of what I used to make, and working more hours to make it, and would need at least 2 jobs in order to get enough work, be available 10+ hours a day to get enough work, etc. It is absolutely not a living wage anymore.

Working in the hospitals back in the 90s, I remember MT was the #1 target the hosp admin was 100% focused on getting rid of due to the cost. They even had focus groups come with that #1 goal in mind, along with getting rid of many other departments that eventually became outsourced, like labs (Quest!), etc. They were complaining constantly that if they just didn't have to pay for transcription, blah blah blah... I heard it all the time.

Well, who knows who or what they will target now that MT is gone. I no longer work in the hospitals so don't know what goes on these days.

The one thing coders always told me is that without them, hospitals (etc) don't get paid - bottom line. I am counting on that...(but looking back, I SO wish I had followed my instincts and went to school and learned HIM, instead of a 6-month course for MT, but I was a single parent, no money, etc).

I do also remember a 'hinky' feeling always between the coders and MTs, though. Never could figure it out, except the coders back then all were college educated (I don't think they had coding courses so much then) and we were not. Must have been a little frustrating for them I guess.

...but hey back then, if you can even use your imagination that much, ladies used to SMOKE right in the Medical Records Dept! With all those charts and papers all over, can you believe it, ashtrays all over, smoking right at the desks? It is kind of funny to think of now. How they never had a fire I don't know. I was there when they first began implementing the 'no-smoking' but my point is, things change, and they can change very quickly.

This board is great, and you all have been patient and very helpful, especially to those of us who have been 'abused' by the system.

Last chance? - Anonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
I can relate to a lot of what you are saying as I started doing MT in the 1970's. I never felt abused by the system but never fell into the MTSO trap. I don't understand what you mean by a "hinky" feeling between coders and MTs. I worked in medical record departments and the coders were always eager and willing to share their knowledge with me. Remember that without MT, there would be no documentation in the record to code from, so don't think that what you did never mattered. I am concerned about your "last chance" statement and I am also concerned about you not exploring other employment options. You raise some valid points about finding a job but even with a coding cert. there are no guarantees, you may end up working in a non-coding job anyway, it's difficult getting a job without experience. I took a coding course in my late 50's. I'm not working as a coder but do work in health care documentation, I also QA the MT work of others - keep your options open.

just the last so many years, for sure abused by the system - MT2MC

[ In Reply To ..]
because I am comparing what I had and what has been lost over 22 years. years ago I was actually 'wined and dined' to accept a job as an MT, with full benefits and a complete work station provided at home. now an MT takes all the expense on for the internet, the PC, the platform etc, and no more things like health insurance, sick days, etc. it is all gone, unless you are perhaps one of the very lucky ones. from this board and my experience, I could safely say the majority of MT is not good at all in any way.

it is like a last chance for me because, although there are endless options for courses and training, the truth is that actually securing or getting a job (or not just a job, but something to do to put food on the table and pay for cost of living) past 50 is becoming almost impossible.

all the training in the world is not going to help someone hire me because on paper I am over 50 with (now) bad credit (due to losing my 22-year job being outsourced overseas), and credit is a HUGE issue with regards to getting hired. you know the old, you can't get a job with bad credit, yet you have bad credit because you can't get a job.

with coding, I still have some small thread of a chance because that is where I started as a MR clerk in a local hospital - and had 8 years in-hospital as an MT. I am hopeful it may put me back on the track to finish out my 10 or so years left of full-time work, if I can learn it - because over 50 it gets a little harder to retain things. not impossible, but harder.

I had considered HIT, but a 2-year degree is out of the question as my unemp will be up before that. Nursing and hands-on things like that are not for me.

as to the part about the coders and MTs, that was my impression (at 2 different hospitals I worked at). personally I got along very well with the coders, but for some reason it wasn't that way for everyone, not sure why. it was like how QA can sometimes be to MTs - it is hard to explain but they can really put MTs down. I was trained by a very professional CMT, and then went to school for MT so for me it was a chosen field. many ladies I worked with had transitioned from other jobs in the hospital, such as secretaries in different departments. I don't know if they 'loved' the job quite as I did (because basically they would say they didn't). back then MTs were more considered 'typists' from the 'typing pool' and not treated as professionals. perhaps it was more 'universal' because doctors also would treat us like that. we were just the typists. you may remember that, crazy times!

to me MT was my chosen field and I LOVED it, everything about it - even the most difficult dictators and challenges - it was a job I looked forward to every single day, up until only a short time ago. I LOVED it, and it is gone so there is a bit of 'mourning' I guess for all the good things it once gave me.

but I don't want to settle, I want that again - to feel that good about a job. I love to research, and to work pretty much by myself, and coding seemed like a natural transition for me. in the hospital, though, I remember coders almost coming to fists with the doctors when we went to capitation here in our state. the doctors were so used to doing whatever they wanted done for patients, and the coders had to start telling them what they could or could not do...based on statistics and money. that I am not sure about...
Starting Andrews Next Week - TNMT
[ In Reply To ..]
MT2MC...I understand your fear with regard to age. I will be 51 years old in March. Yesterday, I finally decided to take the plunge and signed up for the Andrews coding course. I am truly EXCITED!!!!

I finally had to ask myself do I keep on just barely getting by as an MT (I, too, used to make really good money...not any more...) or learn a new skill in the medical field? I LOVE the medical field and coding is something that I have been considering for several years. I'm doing this for ME and my future. Once you make a decision, you will feel so much better. Just wanted to let you know you are not the only one over 50 making a career change. You go, girl!!!!
Yay for you! Good choice! - Bet you ARE excited! nm
[ In Reply To ..]
Nm
Starting Andrews next week - how is it going?
[ In Reply To ..]
HI
I just enrolled at Andrews and was wondering how it is going for you? so I can sort of know what to expect. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
Well, you're in luck! - Coding is nothing like you seem to think!
[ In Reply To ..]
You said . . . "in the hospital, though, I remember coders almost coming to fists with the doctors when we went to capitation here in our state. the doctors were so used to doing whatever they wanted done for patients, and the coders had to start telling them what they could or could not do...based on statistics and money. that I am not sure about..."

Coders DO NOT do that. We don't fight with doctors or tell them what they can and cannot do for their patients.

And, for what it's worth, I was older than you are when I changed careers. Many, many coders are in their 50s and 60s.

I do not think it is at all accurate to say that "over 50 it becomes harder to retain things." If you believe it, though, it will be true for you.




Thanks for the post - Anonymous
[ In Reply To ..]
However, I don't think credit is a huge issue in regard to being hired. Employers do background checks, but I think they are more concerned with felonies, drug convictions and the like. Bankruptcy may be an issue but I don't know if bad credit would affect you that much. If so, it would certainly apply to coding jobs as well where you are involved in financial matters. Don't let your age stop you, I was hired for a new job at age 58 after I was laid off from MT. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I feel encouraged after reading the posts...ty everyone. - MT2MC
[ In Reply To ..]
I am pretty sure it is the direction I am going to go... the tips here are amazing and now it will be up to me, if I can handle learning the material, etc. Andrews is going to be my first choice, if I can get the grant for it.

Also compare Career Step - RadMT

[ In Reply To ..]
How does Career Step compare with these two? It is an AHIMA-approved where Andrews isn't.

Thanks in advance for the input!

Too much $$ to get to CPC - Andrews student

[ In Reply To ..]
* came back to edit for clarity

I'm still a student, but I decided against Career Step because it was not a good value. It's almost as much as Andrews, but only about half the program. If I was going to take a pretty good course to help me pass only the CPC , I'd probably go with www.codingcertification.org ($997 plus books)over Career Step- or even try to work out something with Andrews.

As far as being "AHIMA-approved", my local community college has that designation. It hasn't helped any of their graduates get a job. Let the buyer (or student) beware.

What made you choose Andrews? - RadMT

[ In Reply To ..]
I hear that Andrews is great, but knowing that Career Step is AHIMA-approved, it seems like a good choice since many job postings I've seen have mentioned that the applicant had to go to an AHIMA school. It's so confusing trying to decide!
Apparently it is VERY confusing trying to decide. - My observation
[ In Reply To ..]
My observation is that it must be extremely confusing for you to decide, because I seem to recall that you've posted the same thing at least once before. You still seem to be on the fence about this. I'm starting to wonder if it is because your job consists of posting statements like that. But perhaps you just saw someone else's posts in the past and have absorbed them.

I know we've explained this several times. I also know that we've mentioned the change in AHIMA program approval, with basically them dropping non-college programs from the list after their current approval expires. There used to be a lot of them, but now there is only one left and it won't last forever.

Certainly, if you feel that attending an AHIMA program is desirable, you should do that! No reason to remain confused about it! Waffling about it is just keeping you away from a well-paying career.

Let us know how you do with it, too. Let your experiences benefit others!

I just want the best bang for my buck - In hopes of landing a job
[ In Reply To ..]
I have worked in the healthcare industry for 18 years, and AHIMA has been a very reputable organization with their 'stamp of approval' a must have if you want to succeed in the HIM field. So, I guess I'm looking for a school that will help me land my first job in coding.

All of the comments on here have helped me immensely, and I appreciate all you've had to offer! I am close to making my decision. It's just so hard to cut that check until I know all the facts from you experienced coders and coding students.

Thanks again!
The best "stamp of approval" from AHIMA is a good credential - (in my opinion)
[ In Reply To ..]


Be - clear
[ In Reply To ..]
You are saying the best stamp of approval is if you have an AHIMA credential. Let's tell this person that you can get that AHIMA credential, which IS the best stamp of approval, but you do NOT have to enroll in an AHIMA-approved program to get that credential. However, if you want to sit for the AHIMA CCS after you graduate, the program has to have met the requirements posted on the AHIMA website: By Education:Completion of a coding training program that includes anatomy & physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, medical terminology, reimbursement methodology, intermediate/advanced ICD diagnostic/procedural and CPT coding. So, if your program meets these, and is not even AHIMA approved, you can still sit for it, get it, be proud. Once you have the credential, no one will say, oh, wait, what program did you get your education with to get that credential? The credential tells the story. The funny thing is, a lot of the AHIMA- approved programs don't prepare you well enough to pass the CCS. So there you will be, hey, but I went to an AHIMA-approved program, hire me, and they will say, where is your credential? - We require an AHIMA credential, sorry.
You are right - IMO
[ In Reply To ..]
We weren't talking about a CCS, though, right? Career Step only prepares students for a CCA or a CPC.

Andrews is one of the only programs out there that is preparing students for the CCS.

You are right, there is a requirement for A&P and med. term. in place now for students who want to sit for the CCA.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Very good advice - Thank you
[ In Reply To ..]
That is exactly what I needed to hear. That will surely help me make my decision.

Thanks a million!
Something to consider - sm
[ In Reply To ..]
My recommendation for you is to choose an approved school because your difficulty deciding now is an indication that you will suffer buyer's remorse no matter what. You'll feel better about it if you spent your money on an approved program. If the fuse fizzles or if it blows up in your face, you'll be able to justify the decision by saying you chose an approved program.
So is Andrews not an approved school? sm - Please explain
[ In Reply To ..]
Hi
I just signed up with Andrews because it seems they are a really good choice, but I am wondering if they are approved now that I have been reading this?
Approval - info
[ In Reply To ..]
Approval by AHIMA only matters if you plan on sitting for either an RHIT or RHIA exam. They will not let you sit for those exams without going through an approved course.

Approval for a coding course does not really matter in the big picture. An Andrews education, as long as you work hard, will help you get to where you want to go in coding.


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Cost Of Andrews Coding Course?
Jun 30, 2013

Can anyone tell me the cost of the coding course at Andrews? Do you still get a discount if you completed the medical transcription course? ...


Andrews For Coding - Have To Be A Citizen?
Jul 26, 2013

I am interested in The Andrews School for medical coding, but I see on their website that you have to be a citizen.  I am a resident alien and I am wondering why you are required to be a citizen in order to attend the school.  Thanks in advance. ...


What's The Best Coding School Outside Of Andrews?
Aug 03, 2013

I was wondering what the best coding school is, other than Andrews? ...


CPC/CCS Coding Program Other Than Andrews
Sep 03, 2013

Does anyone know of a (non-degree) program other than Andrews that upon completion will allow you to be eligible to sit for the CCS and CPC exam. I have researched the Andrews program and think it sounds great and comes with awesome recommendations from this board. I just want to explore any other options available before I take the plunge. Not necessarily needing a degree, already have Masters in Health Administration. Thanks so much. ...


Andrews Coding Students
Dec 15, 2013

How long did it take you to finish the coding course? Thanks. ...


I Want To Consider Going To Andrews For Their Coding Program
Apr 27, 2015

and I think I'd enjoy the job (after researching for the past year). I really want to do something interesting for the rest of my working life (and still have a career rather than just a job like I do now), but now I'm starting to wonder if I am too old at 58.  I guess I'd get through the schooling in about 12 months, then take the CCS exam (takes time?) and then I say give myself up to a year to find a job (??).  That would mean I could be pushing 60 when I began.  ...


Can Andrews' Coding Course Be Completed In Less Than 12 Months?
Jan 24, 2011

I've been looking at both Andrews and Career Step for online coding classes.  One thing that I've noticed (other than the cost differences) is that the Career Step course can be completed in as little as 4 months.  It seems the Andrews course takes a minimum of 12 months.  Is it possible to complete it in less time or is that frowned upon?  If I had the extra money and time, I would probably be leaning toward Andrews (particularly since I already completed thei ...


Andrews Coding/CMT CECs Question
May 06, 2012

I just spent a few hours getting some CECs for my CMT and it got me thinking. Does anyone know if the coding program at Andrews could be used for my CMT CECs? I apologize if this has been discussed in the past. I tried to search the archives but came up with nothing. Thank you for any input! ...


Andrews School And Medical Coding
Jul 29, 2012

Andrews School and Medical Coding.  Is this a good program. ...


Any Andrews Coding Graduates Getting Jobs?
Oct 07, 2012

Has anyone graduating from the Andrews coding course gotten jobs. I know how hard it is to get a job without prior experience. I am 61 and wondering if it is worth the expense and effort to take the couse. I have fifteen years of MT experience and also have worked in a hospital for years before that. Thanks. ...


Questions For Andrews Coding Graduates (sm)
Jan 08, 2013

I have been doing research on the various coding programs out there and before I spend a large amount of money on training, I want to ask former Andrews coding students a couple of questions. 1. Did you pass the certification exam(s) and, if so, did you feel like the schooling that you received prepared you for the exam? 2. Are you currently working as a coder and, if not, how long have you been actively looking for a job and have you been able to get job interviews. I realize that getting ...


Andrews Coding: Time To Complete?
Jun 30, 2013

One thing I haven't seen posted re: Andrews is a reasonable expectation of a timeframe for an experienced MT to complete their program.  What has been everybody's experience thus far? I realize we all have different home situations and some are pulled in more directions than others.  I work full-time.  Kids are no longer underfoot.  Not caring for parents as they are deceased already.  No yard to tend. I've found myself cornered into an untenab ...