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AHIMA Basic Coding Program, anyone else take this? - LB

Posted: Apr 27, 2015

Hello, I am currently enrolled in AHIMA's Basic Coding Program. Has anyone else done this program? It seems that the CCS is mentioned as being the certficiate to get, is the CCA no good? This is all new to me, so any advice would be appreciated! I have done transcription for 17 years, but my company was outsourced, so time for a change. I am really enjoying learning coding. It is an online course, so I hope it will be enough to prepare me for a coding position. I also have an Associate Degree in physical therapy which I did many years ago.

In answer to your question, the CCA is no good - in my opinion

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You need the CCS in order to get employers to look at you. They really are not impressed with the CCA. The reason is given on the AHIMA web site when they explain that the CCA demonstrates a desire to learn coding (paraphrasing) and the CCS demonstrates mastery of coding concepts.

The answer is in the name, Basic Coding - sm

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You aren't at all likely to get a job with basic coding skills. They want coding professionals, as in the CCS.

Thanks for the info - LB

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Thank you for your input. I did have an interview recently and the employer did say they would hire me with the CCA, so I won't give up hope just yet! Just could not afford to go for another degree right now.

I hope that works out well for you - sm

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That would be good. I hope it works out for you. It doesn't take a degree program to get the CCS, by the way. If the employer who said they would hire you does follow through with that, you can get the CCS later. The problem with that is, you still had training only at the basic level and most jobs give experience that won't help you pass the CCS. In other words, you might be given very minimal jobs because you don't have the CCS, but not enough to help you pass it. You might work in one very specific area and become very good at it, but not overall skills. That won't be a problem if you are hired by that employer who said they would hire you and if you like working there and want to stay there, and if that feeling is mutual. That's not a very solid position to be in and definitely not the recommended way to do it. If you happened into the right employer though, it's possible. Most of the time it doesn't work that way. Let's hope in your case it does. Then you can put some money back and go for advanced training and the CCS. That makes all the difference with job options and you won't be stuck with one employer.

What is the best route... - LB

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....to get the CCS? Can you train online for the test and how long does it take? Thank you again in advance!

For now, you're already committed, so that is your best route - sm

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You've already committed to the route you're on, so see if you can make it work. That employer you talked about may actually hire you and might not ever require that you have a professional coding credential. The CCA may be enough for that particular employer. If it doesn't turn out that way, look for a school that teaches at the CCS level, but do that later after you find out if your current plan is going to work for you.

In the meantime do more research before doing anything else - Coder from MT

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Don't make any other decisions quickly without doing more research. There are many discussions here on this page, lots of good information. That's a start. Even if something costs less and takes less time, it's not worth anything if the results don't get you where you want to be. Too many people take that route. You see them all over on blogs and forums saying nobody hires new graduates. Read those, find out where they went to school, and learn from it before you make your next decision.

Thanks again - LB

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Thank you again for the help. This is all such a learning experience, wasn't prepared for losing my job after 17 years. I have learned a valuable lesson, nothing is for certain, need to always plan ahead....

You'll do fine. - See Message

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Once you've found the right career path, you are going to do just fine. Sometimes it takes making a few mistakes first. Many of us have been there. It's worth it if you learn from your mistakes and keep going. Don't let anything keep you from your goal of being a medical coder. You can definitely do this!

That is what I need to hear! - LB

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Thank you for the encouragement! It is harder to feel confident once you reach a certain older age, especially in the job market, but I won't give up. :)

Not so sure I agree... - CODERTOBE

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The CCA IS a certification that is AHIMA endorsed. I am enrolled in a comprehensive AHIMA accredited HIM program, it is a 2 year program. All students are eligible to sit for the CCA or CCS. Those who are pursuing an associates in HIM are encouraged to take the RHIT and not bother with the CCS or the CCA since the RHIT trumps all. The CCA is a perfectly acceptable entry-level certification.

No, the RHIT does not trump all - sm

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The RHIT often doesn't have enough coding in it to allow passing an employment coding test.

Ask employers about the CCA vs. the CCS. The CCS is a winner with employers.

Your are wrong. - CODERTOBE

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I am not sure where you got that information, but I do know for a fact that employers prefer RHIT over CCS due to the mastery level. Also, if you can pass the RHIT exam, you most certainly should be able to pass a coding employment test. I have worked in management in the HIM field for 12 years and am myself 1 semester away from my associates in HIM. I will sit for the RHIT.

No, CoderTobe, that is incorrect. - RHIA, CCS

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I understand that your school may have told you that, but it is incorrect. Your workplace may have led you to believe it, too, but it is still incorrect. It is a very common misunderstanding about the RHIT.

The RHIT is a generalist credential that covers all areas of HIA at the associate degree level. From the AHIMA website, the RHIT demonstrates ENTRY-LEVEL skills. The CCA demonstrates ENTRY-LEVEL skills. The CCS and CCS-P demonstrate MASTERY-LEVEL SKILLS.

With respect to coding, the CCS trumps everything. The RHIA then trumps the RHIT. The RHIT is about the same as the CCA. Again, that is with respect to CODING.

If you are talking about HIA in general, the RHIA trumps the RHIT.

If you applied to my facility, we would not accept a CCA. We see so many RHITs and RHIAs who cannot code that we would want to see a CCS as well. We know better than to offer jobs contingent upon passing a coding exam--that never happens.

The CCS/RHIT require same education level - CODERTOBE

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nm

The MINIMUM coursework may be the same, but - not the skill level.

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I am afraid that you are confusing the required coursework for the exam with the knowledge content and skill level tested on the exam.

That coursework just lets you TAKE the exam. To PASS the CCS, you need more than just that.

I have taken those exams. I can assure you that you will not pass the CCS with what is taught in most RHIA programs, much less an RHIT.

That is why AHIMA does not recommend taking the CCS without 2 years of experience.

okay. The "expert" has spoken. - CODERTOBE

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The responses on this board to posted questions are so NOT helpful. I am not mistaken. Many graduates from my program take AND pass the CCS. Students in the program are able to sit for CCA after 1 year, CCS, RHIT after completion of advanced coding classes which are mandatory in the HIM program. I will never understand why some feel the need to be so close-minded to others knowledge.

No one is being closed-minded. - sm

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It is not closed-mindedness to correct errors. What you said initially was simply incorrect.

What you are saying now doesn't justify it, either. It has nothing to do with it, in fact.

AND, you are now changing your story. Why would students in your program sit for the expensive CCS if the RHIT "trumps it," as you said, and if your school says you don't need it?

There are a lot of good college programs. Perhaps you attend one. It doesn't show, though, when you post blatant errors. It especially doesn't show when you resort to name-calling.

Never did I say it was not needed (CCS) - CODERTOBE

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The discussion began with a student asking about the CCA and being told it was a waste of her time to pursue that particular AHIMA credential. I stated facts, not mistakes, about the capability of students who complete a 2 year HIM program to successfully sit for the RHIT and or the CCS. The credential of CCA does allow coders to gain employment. Many facilities hire CCA coders. Not one time did I say the CCS was NOT needed, but it certainly is not the only credential that a prospective coder will gain employment with.

You are twisting this around - sm

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No one said the CCS is the only credential you can gain employment with. That would be impossible, after all.

The CCS is just more likely to get you a job than a CCA or even an RHIT.

It is understandable that you would want to support your choices and your school. It is understandable that your school promotes your future credentials because they need your business. However, you need to pay attention to what you are hearing from us, because misconceptions about this are going to have a negative effect on your future. You will alienate potential employers if you do not understand your own industry. You will spend more time in lower-paying jobs. You will limit your advancement. Not talking about your "management" position now, at your little hospital, but positions you will never be considered for because of limited credentials and lack of education.

I will continue my pursuit of RHIT credential. - CODERTOBE

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It is an all-inclusive HIM degree that allows positions of employment throughout the Health Information Management field, coding included. Thanks for your opinion. I am certainly not twisting anything around. I certainly will not be limited to low-paying jobs.

Good decision for you - sm

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That's a good decision for you. I think you should continue. There is nothing wrong with your program. It is probably well-suited for you.

However, I think you should not expect an RHIT to be the end-all and be-all of HIM. It is only a 2-year degree. Today, you need a bachelor's degree at a minimum unless you want to remain in small facilities and small jobs in worker-bee-land where the pay IS LOWER.

Please do some research outside your local town. HIM management jobs today are requiring 4-year degrees and even master's degrees.

Seriously, you are correcting an RHIA? - lol

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Don't you think an RHIA with a CCS might know?

I'm looking at AHIMA's Coder Salary by Credential and CCS Wins All. - Sticking to Facts Not Wishful Thinking

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AHIMA puts out a Coder Salary by Credential. The CCS is at the top with the CCS-P immediately under. The RHIT is below and the CCA is the lowest.

The facts are clear. CCS is a professional coding credential; RHIT is not - Believe whatever you want

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The facts are clear. Anyone can look them up. Arguing against the facts is just silly. Everyone knows that for practical coding skills, the CCS demonstrates mastery of coding proficiency. AHIMA's web site makes that perfectly clear. According to AHIMA, the only requirement for taking the CCA is a high school diploma. RHIT description briefly mentions coding, and some RHIT programs do cover it while others give an overview.

In my neck of the woods, this is want most coding jobs want you to have - justright

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MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Certified Coding Specialist (CCS) or successful completion of CCS exam within 6 months of hire, or Registered Health Information Technician (RHIT) or Registered Health Information Administrator (RHIA). Two (2) years experience in Acute Care, CPT and ICD-9-CM coding. One (1) year experience in quality review. Demonstrates proficiency in Microsoft Officeï�� products. The ability to develop spreadsheets and databases, and import/export files, etc. Previous experience with encoder software.

PREFERRED: Certified Coding Specialist (CCS), or Registered Health Information Administrator (RHIA).

Oh, no, that is not how it works - It is on the AHIMA website

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Unfortunately, students in RHIT programs often hold those opinions. It seems to be a case of wishing making it so. They seem to go by hearsay and opinions of others rather than reading the AHIMA website.

The CCA may be a "perfectly acceptable entry-LEVEL certification" according to AHIMA, but what matters is whether employers accept it. The answer to that is "maybe." (No training is required for the CCA. Yup, that is true.)

The RHIT is an entry-level credential, as well. The coding classes in those two-year college programs are exactly the same as the coding classes in one-year coding certificate programs at those schools. Both of those are required to lead to the CCA. The CCA was developed because so many students could not pass the CCS.

The CCA is not the same thing as a CCS or CCS-P. The CCA is entry-level, meaning that you still need to learn. (No training or experience is required for the CCA.) The CCS and CCS-P are mastery-level, meaning that you know the job. The exams cover the material at completely different levels.

It is very misleading to say that "students are eligible to sit for the CCA or CCS." THERE ARE NO ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CCA. Eligibility for the CCS is based on coursework. However, does not indicate whether you know the material or can do the job. That is why those are EXAMS, to determine if you know it and can do the job.

The RHIT and CCA programs AND EXAMS cover the same coding material at basic, or entry-level. CCS requires the same minimum coursework as the RHIT, but PASSING IT requires more knowledge and skill, because the exam ALSO INCLUDES higher level material.

Again, THERE ARE NO ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS for the CCA. The requirements for the CCS and RHIT are the same, but the failure rate on the CCS is so high (50 to 60%) that the CCA was developed to give AHIMA-approved coding program graduates some kind of credential to improve their dismal chances of getting a job.

Thank you - anon

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While I respect your thoughts and opinions regarding the CCA credential, I do not think it is fair to not recognie the CCA as an AHIMA designated credential. True, there are no REQUIRED prerequisites, but the likelihood of one passing the CCA without a strong knowledge base in coding, reimbursement and basic HIM methodologies is not a reasonable expectation. The CCA is an entry-level credential, but there is nothing wrong with entry-level. It is exactly what it sounds like. The CCS of course indicates a more developed knowledge base of coding guidelines and principles, but the CCA should not be discounted as a credential to be proud of, especially for a new coder. Many employers accept the CCA. Two year coding programs that produce CCA candidates are the same programs that produce CCS candidates. It depends on the comfort level of the coder in her testing abilities.

CCA 63% pass rate 2013
CCS 64.8% pass rate 2013
RHIT 76% pass rate 2013

Anon, that post DID NOT say the CCA was not an - AHIMA-designated credential!

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Anon, why would you feel it was appropriate to claim that I said something I did not say???

There is nothing WRONG with the credential. It just requires less and demonstrates a lower level of achievement.

This is what you said: "Two year coding programs that produce CCA candidates are the same programs that produce CCS candidates. It depends on the comfort level of the coder in her testing abilities."

Comfort level? Seriously? You think this is a matter of COMFORT LEVEL???

Do you think we get to be as competent or as accurate as our comfort level permits??? "Sorry, but I am comfortable with my accuracy of 90%, so you should be, too." It doesn't work that way.

Yes, two-year coding programs that produce CCA candidates ARE the same that produce CCS candidates. However, some students achieve less than others.

Why should I hire someone who spent two years in college to learn a job AND ISN'T COMFORTABLE DOING IT? Or, worse, can't do it.

If you are not intellectually capable of learning or you can't bother to make the effort, you cannot function in my workplace. You cannot because you do not have the intellectual capacity or the drive to do so. We cannot risk hiring you because YOU ALREADY DEMONSTRATED THAT YOU ARE UNQUALIFIED.

That is what the CCA tells us. It tells us that you are unqualified because you don't learn. For whatever reason, YOU DO NOT LEARN. It is a big sign saying "I spent two years in school wasting time and didn't learn, so please hire me so I can waste your time, too."

We do not have any jobs for that kind of person.

The worst thing about it is that those folks can't seem to pass the CPC, either. Doubly useless.

Do you know what that whole "comfort level" thing is? It is a sense of entitlement. It is what happened when everybody got rewarded for "showing up" and "trying real hard."

And, as far as those pass rate statistics go, do not assume that the CCS candidates are recent graduates of those college programs you mentioned. The CCAs most probably are, because nobody else thinks to go after it. The CCSs, however, come from experienced and often credentialed coders who were trained at work, on their own, through HCPro/DecisionHealth inpatient bootcamps, or at schools like Andrews.

Response to above post - anon

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In my opinion, the CCA is an excellent example of a coder's desire to be a certified, skilled coder. It takes time, effort and intelligence to pass the CCA. Not to mentioned the cost associated with the certification exam. My comfort level comment refers to the candidate feeling they are ready for the CCS as opposed to the entry-level CCA. You can work as an inpatient coder with a CCA. You can work in a physician's office with a CCA. CCA is the stepping stone into the coding world (AHIMA credential wise). No one should ever remain a CCA but rather use it to gain employment and get some experience before taking the CCS.
Below is the breakdown of the CCA domains.
There are six domains that make up the CCA test:
Health Records and Data Content (20%)
Health Information Requirements and Standards (14%)
Clinical Classification Systems (36%)
Reimbursement Methodologies (10%)
Information and Communication Technologies (6%)
Privacy, Confidentiality, Legal, and Ethical Issues (14%)

Passing the CCA is an accomplishment too. It should not be seen as "a lower level of achievement" or "NOT QUALIFIED".

Completely appalled at the responses some of the posters have given. Everyone on this board seems prepared to attack any person asking a question or not agreeing 100% that a CCS is the only credential an employer will look for. Jeez.

Well, we know from years of experience the difference - SA

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It isn't up for debate. The results have been in for years, and CCA candidates aren't getting any better. It isn't a matter of opinion. It's just facts based on professional experience.

Wishing does not make it so. - Coder

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You are absolutely correct, Anon, that the CCA is "example of a coder's desire to be a certified, skilled coder." Emphasis on "desire to be." DESIRE. Wishing. Intention.

If you wanted it so much, you should have made more effort while you were in school, hmm? As an employer, I can't hire wishes. I can only hire people who achieve at the level I need, which is the CCS, or even CPC, level. I need someone with a driver's license, not a learner's permit.

It IS a "lower level of achievement." The only thing it qualifies you for is on the job training.

The cost of the certification exam? Isn't it less expensive to take the CCS one time than to take the CCA ($$$) *and* then the CCS ($$$)?

You don't need to tell us what is ON the CCA exam. We already know. AND WE KNOW THAT MATERIAL IS TESTED AT A LOWER LEVEL THAN THE CCS.

Is that what you don't understand? That the exams test at different levels? Are you thinking that because they all test Clinical Classification Systems or Health Record Content that it is AT THE SAME LEVEL?

That would not be true. The level of expertise, knowledge, and reasoning ("cognitive level")tested on the CCA is lower than the CCS.

It would not be surprising if you did think that, because we often see RHITs who think that the RHIT tests at the same cognitive level as the RHIA. That is absolutely not the case. The RHIA includes those same domains, but the questions are at a much higher cognitive level.

Sorry, but I can't hire you if you can't code at the required level. I have no trainer and no funds to train you. I need someone who can code proficiently right out of the box.

As for being able to work in a doctor's office, that's just silly. They can't afford to train you for the CPC, either. And, they don't know what the CCA is. They don't even know what AHIMA is. They are focused on AAPC credentials and they expect to see one of those, even if it has an -A on it. And, no, if you can't pass that test, you cannot code well enough to work in a doctor's office.

This isn't first grade when everybody got a prize for participation. It isn't grade school when everybody got promoted because they grew too tall to fit in the seats.

If you want to be a coder, you need to find a school that teaches to something higher than the CCA and you need to achieve at a level that will enable you to pass the CCS. If you can't do that, continue on in that RHIT program and work making photocopies in ROI or some other clerical function.

We see people on this board all the time who have a CCA and can't get a job. They blame it on no experience. It isn't the experience, it is the lack of achievement that the CCA broadcasts. AHIMA did nobody a favor in creating that. It has just deluded students into thinking that aiming lower is still fine. Well, it isn't.

Sorry if you think that's mean, but it's reality.

The CCA should be discounted as a meaningful credential - SA

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Employers know that hiring a CCA is going to mean they will have to train them. Unfortunately, students in CCA programs don't know that until they can't get a job doing actual coding.

Not so disheartening..... - CODERTOBE

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Many employers will give you the opportunity to work as an uncertified coder or with a CCA with the goal of obtaining your CCS or RHIT within a certain amount of time. Do not give up!

I've heard of a few, not many, employers who will do that - About Getting Started

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Very few employers will give you a job contingent on getting the CCS, although there are a very few who will. Good luck finding those. As far as the CCA, employers run from that one. Everyone knows that if you have professional-level skills, you'll go for the CCS. If you had an introduction to coding, you go for the CCA. Employers certainly know that. It's seen as kind of a consolation prize for people who studied for 2 years at a college and learned many things not related to coding, with a touch of coding on the side. Nobody takes the coding skills of a CCA very seriously until they upgrade to either an RHIA, not an RHIT, and hopefully a CCS, the coding crown.

Yikes, getting a little discouraged... - LB

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Thanks for all the information again. I am starting to feel I am wasting my time with the CCA. Why do they even offer this certificate then? I was told by the lady who interviewed me that it was a good program and she would hire CCAs. She also was a coding instructor at a college. In looking up positions at some hospitals in my area CCA was listed as an accepted requirement. So I guess I will keep working at this and hope for the best.

Regarding why they even bother to offer the CCA - My Thoughts

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The CCA doesn't make sense to me either. I've heard that they started it when college students would study coding for years and still be unable to pass the CCS, which is still the case. LB, you still may get a job with it as long as those employers don't have enough CCS candidates applying for those jobs. College instructors are still promoting it because that's the only credential their graduates are qualified to sit for, much less pass. It's the ridiculous way college medical coding courses are set up. It makes no sense whatsoever. I think you'll find a job though. Since you're already into it, there is no way to turn back now anyway. Just keep working at it and hope for the best, as you said. There is a shortage of medical coders, so I'm betting that even the CCAs are going to have jobs. You will have to work harder at it and get that CCS as soon as you can. Make that your goal. You can do it with some additional training. You shouldn't have to get additional training, but that's the way these college courses work. Makes no sense whatsoever, but it is what it is.

Here's what's wrong with most of the college courses - Not Enough Coding

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The college courses are very proud of all of the many topics they cover, like obsolete software programs, theories, concepts, explanations of things medical coders will never need to know, etc. They just don't spend enough time on actual practical coding. They forget to keep the main thing the main thing, or maybe they do. It's just that what the student sees as the main thing, being able to get a job, is not the main thing for college administration. They are all about numbers. If a course doesn't enroll enough students, the program is dropped. Course content is not considered as to what makes the student able to get a job. That just isn't a consideration.

The only consideration for colleges is the student loan programs - All about the money

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Whether the graduates gets a job is not a consideration. It's all about student loan programs, financial aid. It's always all about the money the course brings in. Of course administration and especially instructors are going to promote the CCA. If they don't, they don't have a job. Their entire career is built on selling that credential.

Additional training - LB

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How would I get the additional training for the CCS? Can you recommend anything? I have an Associate's Degree in Physical Therapy, so I really don't want to have to go back for another degree, plus cannot afford it right now. Would I be able to just take a few classes to train for the CCS? Who would you recommend to go through for that training? Thank you again for all your help! I appreciate everyone's knowledge on this matter.

Good question, since the highly recommended programs don't teach in pieces - Let me think about it

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You don't need another degree. What you need is the CCS credential. That's not a degree and doesn't require a degree program. That's where you went wrong in the CCA program. You don't need to do that again unless you want to go into management. If you want to do that, you'd need another degree, but that would not help you get a job as a medical coder.

One good thing. You are way ahead of those with just a CPC - One Thought

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People who only have a CPC are really in a bad spot. It's a great credential to have if you also have a CCS, but not by itself. Together, it means that you have taken a thoughtful approach to your medical coding education and can do both outpatient and inpatient. Separately, there are huge numbers of people who took short courses in coding, didn't learn enough to pass employment tests, but did pass the CPC. The CCA means that some ICD-10 transition course may let you enroll, taking into consideration your past training, when they wouldn't let a CPC do that because they've had no IP ICD-9 training even.

Good point that the CPCs would be starting from scratch with ICD - sm

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You wouldn't be starting from scratch with ICD training, so you are definitely ahead of those with only a CPC. Most of them took very short, superficial courses, mainly because they are either cheap or paid for by financial aid. Neither of those is a good reason to choose a medical coding course. You, on the other hand, are ahead. You'll be able to use what you've learned. All you need to do is beef up your ICD training.

Feeling better! - LB

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Thank you! You guys are great! I feel better now. I am currently learning ICD-10-CM/PCS, so I am hoping to be done with the classes by the time the changeover occurs. I love it so far, but I have always loved medical terminology and science. I really appreciate the encouragement. I never thought I would be going through a career change at this age, it is scary but also very exciting at the same time. :)

Some of the CPCs are not representing their credential well - They are going to ruin it for all CPCs

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The main problem with the CPC is the lack of skills, motivation, desire for continued education, and the list goes on. That makes the CPC credential look really bad by itself. If you also have the CCS, that proves that you have a solid education. If the CPCs don't start taking their career more seriously, they are going to ruin it for all CPCs. That would be a shame, because there is a need for people with outpatient coding skills.

Oh, most of them will let you enroll no matter what - credential you have.

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The CPC is a perfectly fine credential. It does open doors and it does get jobs, and those jobs pay very well.

It is just that for NEW GRADUATES with no experience, it is a lot easier to get a job if you have the CCS already.

Don't disparage CPC holders. There is nothing wrong with them. The credential serves a different purpose is all.

This "boo-hiss-CPC" business is part of the old AHIMA feud against the AAPC. It is incredibly tacky to still be perpetuating this. Especially if you don't know why.

Many years ago, AHIMA only had the CCS exam, which was INPATIENT, and which outpatient coders had difficulty passing because they were not inpatient coders. AHIMA supported hospital coders and HIM workers.

The AAPC was formed to support outpatient coders, i.e., those who worked in the physician environment. They developed their own credential, the CPC, which focused on outpatient physician services. That type of coding is done a bit differently than inpatient coding, so the exam -- and the training courses -- cover the needs of outpatient coding.

A horrible mean-girls type of feud developed, with one organization bullying the other and disparaging their credential, their training, and their members. This was remarkable, because there was actually no conflict between the credentials. This feud continues to this day with some AHIMA members.

AHIMA schools typically do not recognize AAPC credentials if you ask them to consider waiving the coding courses when you decide to do an RHIT or RHIA program. They may waive them for the CCS, with or without making you take and pass the final exam.

Many courses, though, will let you take any course you like, pretty much even if you have no credential at all. They into it for the money.

You could do this ... - Coder

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If you can already code, you could take HCPro's inpatient boot camp. They are very reputable. They have an online and an in-person version. Expensive, but they are good.

I would not recommend that format for someone who could not already code, though.

As for "classes," colleges and similar programs do not teach "classes" in inpatient coding. They usually just teach the code set itself in a kind of generic, everything-together fashion. The student is left to sort it out on the job. That is why all you can get from your course is the CCA ... it hasn't addressed the types of coding for what they are. It does not go into much depth.

Look at your ICD course. You have two classes, one covers the first half of the book and the other the second half, right? They are not making much distinction between inpatient and outpatient. It is mostly just "here are the conditions and the codes and some guidelines."

Thanks again! - LB

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Thanks for the information. I have so much more research to do. I just hope that I can get a job with the CCA and get some experience and more knowledge and then take the CCS exam. I hope I don't have to spend too much more money on more classes. I appreciate everyone's help and input. :)

Why are you focusing only on the CCA? - Get the CPC, too.

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You keep focusing only on the CCA. Why?

I guess your program is AHIMA-affiliated? It's promoting only the CCA?

What's wrong with outpatient coding jobs? You know, there are far more jobs in outpatient coding than in inpatient. Those jobs are in the physician services side of the profession, which usually isn't even aware of AHIMA, CCAs, or even CCSs.

That side is affiliated with the AAPC. Those jobs still pay well and are still worthwhile. Some of them pay far better than hospital coding jobs, too.

I know lawyers who have AAPC credentials so they can consult, so don't think the AAPC credentials aren't worth anything.

You should plan for and take the CPC exam as soon as you can. You should be able to pass it after you complete diagnosis and CPT coding. That exam offers one free retake, so you can take it without fear. It's a good way to get ready for other coding exams.

You might be surprised to be able to get a job before you complete your entire course.

There are a few people on this board who limited themselves to the CCA and right out of a coding job. There just aren't all that many jobs in hospitals. There are many, many more in outpatient coding, so it is very wise to get a CPC. It NEVER hurts.

Thank you, I will... - LB

[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks again, I appreciate all the input. I am definitely going to keep going forward and go for the CPC when I am able. It never hurts to keep learning new things, at least I have finally learned that now. Wish I would have started a lot sooner, just wasn't prepared to lose my job to outsourcing. Thank you again!

Why that college lady said what she said . . . - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You have to think about WHY that lady, an INSTRUCTOR in that program at that college, said what she said. And what she meant.

Yes, she said she "would hire CCAs." Of course she would hire them, hypothetically speaking, but SHE DID NOT SAY SHE WOULD HIRE YOU.

She said that because she MUST say that as an instructor at the college teaching it. If she said anything else, they would fire her. If she said anything else, nobody would sign up for their program.

COLLEGES support the CCA. They have to because most of them can't teach well enough to produce students who can pass anything else.

The CCA was developed BECAUSE college students could not pass any of the credentialing exams, especially the CCS. Between 25 and 50% of them can't pass the RHIT exam, either, at some colleges.

Colleges also have to support it because if they didn't, AHIMA would be unhappy with them. They would yank their accreditations to teach RHIT and yank their approvals to teach coding. Nobody wants that to happen to their college program.

In an area where you have a local college RHIT program, you will see their graduates working in hospitals. You will also see their graduates teaching there. Those people are gung-ho on supporting their alma mater, on promoting their programs, and on keeping their teaching jobs. Hence, in those areas, you WILL see facilities hiring FROM THOSE COLLEGES. You will see them saying they accept the CCA. They accept that it's their role to mentor and provide on the job training for students from those programs.

Maybe you will get a job with one of them. Or, maybe you won't because your instructor will decide in class that she doesn't like you. Or maybe you won't because some CCS will come along and trump you. Or maybe you won't because your clinical practicum will end up at a nursing home where they have no need of a coder and all the open positions will go to the students who intern at Big Giant Prestigious Teaching Hospital.

That instructor, after all, is not in charge of hiring at ALL facilities.

If you applied for any of our positions -- and we need about 6 coders right now -- you would not be eligible because we don't recognize the CCA. And we don't typically hire RHITs from the local college because they can't code.

Apologies if this discourages you, but it is meant to discourage others from falling for the same "Sure! I'd hire a CCA!" line.

Maybe it depends where one lives... - LB

[ In Reply To ..]
These are the requirements for one of the biggest hospitals in our area for their coding positions:
Summary:
3 years HIM experience in a hospital outpatient coding is required.

Preferable at an academic facility.

Degree or certificate in AHIMA recognized certified coding program required.

Associate's or Bachelor's Degree in HIM or equivalent preferred.

Certified RHIA/RHIT or CCS/CCA/CCS-P required or is eligible to take the AHIMA test. Must pass AHIMA test and have credentials within 18 months of hire.

One more note... - LB

[ In Reply To ..]
Just wanted to specify that "the lady" who interviewed me (I was trying to get an entry level position) is the manager of a medical billing/coding facility that has been in business over 40 years. She said she had taught college courses in the past. She explained that she would have hired me if I had finished my classes, I am just in the beginning right now. She gave me her card to call her when I complete my classes, so there is always hope....

So, what kind of program are you in and - what kind of job are you

[ In Reply To ..]
There's hope, yes, but she did not promise anything. Nobody ever wants to discourage a student. I don't know anyone who will tell a student that they will not hire them.

It still isn't clear what program you are in and what kind of job you are applying for and expecting to get.

The lady now seems to be manager of a BILLING company.

You still seem to be in BILLING program.

Either you are not clear on the correct way to describe your course, or you are truly in a BILLING program.

AHIMA has no billing programs. How are you expecting to qualify for the Big Hospital Job that you posted above?

What school is this? Can you link to it so one of us can look at the course content and tell you what it is, please? That would help you resolve the confusion and possibly the discouragement that you are getting here. We just see a lot of billing students who get burned.

Here is the link... - LB

[ In Reply To ..]
In my initial post I put the name of the program I was in. I am not doing billing at all. It is AHIMA's basic coding program. Here is the link to the description...

OK, I see now - what kind of program

[ In Reply To ..]
Sorry, there are three or more people, two with similar initials, posting similar things right now.

You are in a strictly coding program. It is the AHIMA Coding Basics program, not the basic coding program. The end credential is the CCA. I do not believe it qualifies you to sit for the CCS, but you can take that after you have two years of inpatient coding experience. (I think it is because it does not cover enough coding at an advanced level.)

That is not a bad program. You may find employers who will hire you on the basis of it. The lady you mentioned might, for instance.

If you can get any job at all, you can gain experience which you can use to move on and up.

Be careful about using the term "billing and coding." That means something less than coding, or billing. You will see programs at career colleges called that. They teach mostly billing, which puts codes on bills, so billers need to know what codes are, but they do not teach coding in a way that would enable you to code.

Programs called coding teach coding. They do cover billing so you can understand what to do and how it relates to coding, but their focus is on coding. They teach much more coding.

This is important for your career, too. If you say on a resume that you worked for a coding and billing company, many employers will assume that you worked in billing. They will not consider that coding. Just be clear on the difference so that you do not confuse them.

When you say that lady manages a billing and coding company, for example, I do not recognize that as coding at all. I think it is a billing company.

After you finish your coding modules, try taking the CPC exam. I think even the CPC-A will help you get a job faster than the CCA, but you never know. At least, if you do get a job, you will have the full CPC after a year, and at that point the CPC will outweigh the CCA by a lot, while you will still be ineligible to sit for the CCS.

In other words, continue on, but get the CPC as soon as you can. You may find a really good job with it.

Thank you again, just one more question.... - LB

[ In Reply To ..]
Just one more thing though, what would I have to do to be eligible to sit for the CCS exam? Just more experience? Thank you again for your help, I truly appreciate it. :)

Requirements for the CCS - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
The requirements are on the AHIMA website under Certification. They are long, so I'll let you look them up. If you are already enrolled in a course, you should bookmark them, because you need them for any exam.

Keep in mind that empoyers don't have time to teach you to code - Basic is Not Enough

[ In Reply To ..]
Basic skills won't cut it. Nobody has time on the job to teach you to code at the professional, CCS, level.

Eligibility requirements for CCS exam - CODERTOBE

[ In Reply To ..]
CCS - Eligibility FAQ Document

Candidates must meet one of the following eligibility requirements:

By Credential: RHIAÂ®, RHITÂ®, or CCS-PÂ® OR
By Education: Completion of a coding training program that includes anatomy & physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, medical terminology, reimbursement methodology, intermediate/advanced ICD diagnostic/procedural and CPT coding; OR
By Experience: Minimum of two (2) years of related coding experience directly applying codes; OR
By Credential with Experience: CCAÂ® plus one (1) year of coding experience directly applying codes; OR
Other Coding credential from other certifying organization plus one (1) year coding experience directly applying codes.

It's the "advanced" word that eliminates most coding programs - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

The problem is ... - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
How does a coding student know that their program will meet those educational requirements. Further, how does AHIMA know a test applicant's educational program fulfilled those requirements?

In other words, their site lists those educational requirements but doesn't say how they determine those requirements have been met.

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