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CareerStep is a little less costly - MTheaded

Posted: Sep 15, 2012

but in my state, am not sure Unemp is going to pay for it because it is not located in my state. There were colleges offering it where I could have gotten some financial assistance; however, some are not offering it this year. Odd, because it seems in demand (?) but NYS Unemp is pushing their tech schools, only none offer distance learning. The one college that was offering evening classes, just stopped offering the medical reimbursement course.

Just can't get exactly what i need so will have to probably 'settle' which I hate to do because I am looking for a job/career immediately after school as my Unemp will run out by then.

Andrews vs CareerStep - if Unemp helps with pay, these are probably my only choices.

If anyone has money for it, Daytona College distance learning, - AWEsome. I even ran through a sample of their program and they offer videos, online teachers/mentors - I mean for online it was the best I have seen. I believe they even pay for you to take the exam and help you get a job.

Career Step - see message - Inquiring minds

[ In Reply To ..]
Is less costly because there is less overhead. The program is done completely on line (self-paced with a year to complete). Your lessons are graded on the computer with no explanation as to why your answers were right or wrong. They have a few instructors on staff but it's diffficult to get any feedback. If you think that would work for you, then that is good.

My choice in order of preference if I were going to do it again - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Here are my preferences if I were going to go back and start a coding course. These are the best I've found according to results from graduates.

1. Andrews (My winner. It really has no competition in my opinion because of the results. Graduates are passing the CCS and the CPC. That is something the others have not been able to achieve.)

2. AHIMA's course (included on my list because of their prestige in the coding industry, although graduates of their coding course are not prepared for the CCS, only the CCA, and they don't have instructors. They also teach in something like a dozen classes you're required to take, in 4 clusters, and have prerequisites: A "C" or better in a college-level basic Human Anatomy and Physiology course, before you can even start.

3. WGU - I've heard good things about it as a university, but don't know anything about their coding course. If they had one, I'm sure it would be very good. I've searched their web site and couldn't find anything on it.

The rest that I've looked into prepare students for the CPC, which isn't enough, or the CCA, which also isn't enough.

if I were going to do it again - jan2

[ In Reply To ..]
So, does that mean you studied coding and are currently a coder?

If so, may I ask your age? If not, I understand.

Thank you.

Too old to talk about age. - LOL

[ In Reply To ..]
I stopped talking about age before I was 30, and I'm a couple of decades or so past that. I think it was a wise decision. LOL.

Could not have said it better - Same here

[ In Reply To ..]
I look at people who focus on age . . . they are X age so that is Y years from retirement and what job can they fit in there . . . as people who do not LIVE as much as they try to fill time until they die. "I can't do that. I am too old. I only have 5 years left."

THAT attitude and all that goes with it, not your age, is what repels employers.

I'm misunderstood - jan2

[ In Reply To ..]
I am certainly not a person who just wants to fill time until I die! I am retired. I'm 67 years old. I love to learn and want to continue working and learning. Learning is invigorating to me and necessary in my life to keep growing!!! You don't know me, and I certainly do not have "that attitude" you talk about. I'm just being realistic. I have no retirement, would love to work until I'm in my 80s. I just have to make reasonable decisions financially. If I spend $3,000 on coding and then cannot get a job because I'm 68, 69, then I've wasted money that I need to survive. Can you understand that? Do you know me a little better now? Are you willing to give me some helpful input? Thanks. God bless both of you.

WGU is RHIA in Health Informatics, not just coding - SM

[ In Reply To ..]
Coding is included, obvously, but it is an RHIA program in informatics. Yes, it is excellent. They have 100% pass rate on the RHIA.

They are completely online and can be completed faster than a regular 4 year college, probably in the same amount of time as an RHIT program, which often take 3 or more years for a 2 year degree.

Career Step - Current Andrews student

[ In Reply To ..]
I was eligible for Career Step through UE but I chose Andrews and to pay for it myself. After extensive research and comparing the two, I just felt that I would do better with Andrews. So far so good! It's a lot of work but when you're as motivated as I am to get out of MT (25+ years and I have finally had enough), it's really not that difficult. Good luck to you!

Andrews School - Kat

[ In Reply To ..]
I am cuurently taking the Andrew's School Coding. I find it challenging and interesting. There is feedback from instructors and in a short period of time.

Sorry, poor reasoning & worse judgement - CPC, CCS

[ In Reply To ..]
MTHeaded, you are focusing on alll the wrong things. Did you bother reading the advice here before you came to your decisions or do you just think everyone here is a noncoder taking stabs in the dark?

First, you are willing to sacrifice quality and future job prospects for money. Frankly, you should be less wiling to go with the cheap model because you are going to get what you pay for. There is a reason Andrews is a little more . . . qualified instructors, reference-quality textbooks, and a proven track record of success with both the CPC and the CCS. That other one has one of those.

Second, you are making decisions about the quality of a school based on what you THINK they look like. Really, on their self-described wonderfulness. On the fact that they pay for the exam. ONE exam, when you need two, and WHAT exam is it? Just the CPC? The useless CCA? Some fly-by-night fake? And they help you find a job? What kind of job? Lots of diploma mills say that and count it as a success if they place you answering phones in a doctor's office. Reputable programs do not promise that because it is up to you to get your job.

I think it irritated me a bit to come here this morning to find you spewing more MM drivel after we requested that it stop, and then to find you making uninformed recommendations steering prospective coders toward an unheard of school for the wrong reasons. Sorry if I sound cranky and unsupportive, but the damage you did here will take a month to undo.

Was that a typo? Did you really mean 'one' of those or did you mean 'none' of th - Curious

[ In Reply To ..]
I gave myself a headache trying to figure out which 'one' of those that would be. I finally realized you may have made a typo. You meant to say, 'none' of those. Am I right? Otherwise, which one?

Should be "none" - Sorry

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

We can see what is happening - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
I agree with your post for the most part, except I don't think it will take a month to undo the damage. I think most of us (I sure hope so) can see what is happening all over this board and are not swayed by it, anti-MT, anti-coding, yada, yada, yada. It's getting old, don't know what their agenda is, just being argumentative. It's getting to the point where I consider almost every thread to be started by "them." If it is not, then it is hijacked soon after.

About Daytona -- the informed version - Experienced Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
Daytona State College in Daytona Beach?

From the perspective of an experienced, working coder, this is what I see described there. This is how the school itself explains the program.

It is a coding and billing program leading to jobs in physician offices ONLY, to credentialing as CPC or CCS-P ONLY, so it is OUTPATIENT coding ONLY.

Expected salary was $12 or less per hour.

Tuition and fees were about 5K for instate plus 500 for books (I would guess twice that) and about 14 or 15K for nonresidents plus books.

Only 15 students are accepted per year based on completion of prerequisites. They attend class from 8 to 12 daily. The 34 credit hour program takes 3 semesters full-time AFTER a semester doing prerequisites.

So, you spend 7 or 14K or more, and take 4 semesters to learn HALF of coding in order to get only an outpatient credential, so that you can get a rock-bottom job paying 6 to 12 an hour in a doctor's office?

What is wrong with that picture?

Here is part of what is wrong . . . the program requires a 2.5 GA in the prerequisites for admission. That is very low. They are not expecting much coming in and therefore not expecting to achieve much going out.

No, Daytona College in Ormond Beach - MTheaded

[ In Reply To ..]
What is your opinion of what they are offering? This is a distance course, meaning it can be taken all online. This is what I liked about the demo, you can interact with other students and instructors, and some even post their pictures.

They offer FAFSA which is why I was considering it.

Not sure if this is okay, but if you go to 'links' and 'online learning...' then put in demo and daytona for login, then go to demo course, it gives you a breakdown of the course and a sample of the videos, etc. It appealed to me a lot.

If I had the money, it would be my first choice.

TY for your reply.

That is a diploma mill "career college" !!! - FAFSA loans are NOT free money!

[ In Reply To ..]
This is what you said: "If anyone has money for it, Daytona College distance learning, - AWEsome. I even ran through a sample of their program and they offer videos, online teachers/mentors - I mean for online it was the best I have seen. I believe they even pay for you to take the exam and help you get a job."

Well, I guess it would look pretty good because they want your business. (Andrews would look pretty poor because all they would have to show is a stack of unpleasant-looking textbooks.)

That is a 'career college.' It teaches cosmetology, skin care, nursing assistant, and home health aide -- all low-level jobs.

They cannot accept applications from Montana, New Jersey, Minnesota, Arkansas, Maryland, Wisconsin. Hmm.

Both programs are "accredited" by the National Healthcare Association, which is an organization set up by that type of career college to support their own students. The "credential" offered by them is the CBCS, or Certified Billing and Coding Specialist, which is NOT RECOGNIZED in coding. I do not know anyone who knows what it is.

It is the same thing you would find if you went to your local career college, the kind that set up shop in converted drug stores to train students who can't get into a regular college in dubious "career" fields, while collecting FAFSA funds. You should google federal student loan program to learn about "diploma mills," "career colleges," how their students incur enormous debt and never get jobs, and all the rest of it.

This program is a spin-off of medical assisting/front office. It is intended for people to get jobs in doctors' offices and only doctors' offices. The course actually includes Microsoft Office, so you can see where the focus is -- on clerical work. This is a course intended to get people into low-level front office positions at minimal pay.

The HIT program is not accredited by AHIMA. They are teaching something that REQUIRES accreditation by AHIMA for the education to be valid, for students to get jobs, for students to be eligible for credentialing exams, but they aren't accredited. Instead, they are offering their own National Healthcare Association certification, the Certified Electronic Health Record Specialist (CEHRS). Again, nobody knows what this is, much less accepts it. This course will NOT prepare you for the CCS. The website says students are also eligible for the CPC, but you're eligible right now to take the CPC exam . . . it has no requirements.

The tuition for the coding diploma program is $13,437, books 1,258, a 50 fee, for a total of $14,745. The FAFSA loans will incur considerable interest, but it is not possible to tell how much because the federal disclosure form is mostly blank, since the school has not had any graduates. The repayment for this will DEVASTATE you. Coding does not require this kind of expenditure.

They also have an associate's degree in coding/billing. Tuition is $27,600.00, books/kit $2,295.00, application fee: $100.00. Again, no information available because they have had no graduates. And again, non-recognized credentials are offered. You cannot take the RHIT exam. If you take this program, you cannot transfer it to a 4-year HIA program, either, both because it is not AHIMA-accredited and it is a diploma mill.

Putting this into perspective, you could do an entire bachelor's degree in health informatics online at Western Governor's University, an AHIMA-accredited program, that would get you both coding credentials and the RHIA, and a top-level job in even a major medical center, for FAR less than the cost of the Daytona associate's degree (HIT or coding) programs. If you are industrious, you can probably do it for less than the coding diploma program.

You can also do the Andrews program for a flat $3800, books included, no other expenses, and a no-interest payment plan, graduating able to take the CPC and CCS.

What's the difference? $7-9/hr in a doctor's office versus $45,000 as a CPC/CCS coder and probably $60-100K for the RHIA. See the salary surveys on the AAPC and AHIMA websites.

Videos and photos of other students are great, but that isn't what teaches coding. Appropriately credentialed instructors with work experience that matches what you want to do teach coding.

Interacting with other students isn't all it is cracked up to be, either. There isn't going to be any socializing like in high school, but most schools now DO offer the capability for interaction. At least at Andrews, the students tend to be more mature, more educated, and already experienced professionals, not displaced day laborers, pole dancers, and folks on work release from the jail. (Not making that up . . . )

This a lot of information - and it is useful and helpful - MTheaded

[ In Reply To ..]
I appreciate it. If I can swing it financially, Andrews will be my choice. It is 1000 dollars down that much I know because I have talked with their representative. Hopefully I can convince NYS to help me pay for it under dislocated worker...

Tyvm.

Great Choice! I hope you can convince them. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Good! - I think

[ In Reply To ..]
You will get a good education there and be on your way to a new career. Good luck!

Umm, Andrews does not have "representatives." - LOL

[ In Reply To ..]
Did you speak with Linda? There are only 2 possible people to speak to. Linda usually handles that herself, but you might have spoken to Glenda if Linda was out.

No representatives, no sales people, no "financial advisors," and no ripoffs.

One thing you need to consider is that you may be unable to pass a certification exam or find a job if your skills are not top-notch. Passing certification exams straight out of school is NOT typical, especially not the CCS. It takes a special school to prepare you that well.

Andrews students have a long tradition of yard sales, bake sales, car washes, and other innovative fund-raising activities. They clean houses and I would not doubt that some take in laundry. If they are good cooks, they prepare take orders for casseroles and baked goods from neighbors and relatives, freeze them, and deliver. Some hire themselves out as gourmet chefs for luxury evenings.

You can raise the down payment much faster than you think.

The cost difference, incidentally, is not just a higher price. It is the difference between no books, homemade booklets, and industry-standard references that you will use on the job. It is the difference between preparing with minimal materials and having to buy the same books later, and already having those same books from the beginning. It is the difference between learning ICD-9 in a confusing one-size-fits-all hodge-podge and learning it in two completely separate courses. It is the difference between taking an ICD-9 course that covers "intermediate" as the first half of one coding book and "advanced" as the second, and taking the same course using one entire reputable textbook for intermediate and an even better one for advanced. It is the difference between floundering around on your own trying to make sense of computer-graded nonsense and having a qualified, certified *employed* instructor to ask. It is the difference between having a school that charges extra for extensions and limits support or offers only almost bogus "resume" help or a list of fake jobs, and a school that will work with you until you succeed and which will offer advice and support years later, even to the extent of finding an expert to help you. It's the difference between scrabbling around as a barely-trained coder and a new graduate with credentials better than most coders anywhere.

You do get what you pay for.

Yes, that is who I spoke with - MTheaded

[ In Reply To ..]
...just thought I should not mention names, but yes! and she was very nice and helpful, really listened to me and completely answered my questions. They do offer a different rate I guess with used books, which that is okay with me.

For myself, I am very thankful for this board! You have inspired me.... :)

You're going to love Andrews! - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You're obviously doing your homework before enrolling. That's a sign that you're already motivated and inspired to do well. You're going to love Andrews! The instructors care about teaching you what you need to know to get your CPC and your CCS. I wouldn't settle for anything less!

Who are you directing this to? - MTheaded

[ In Reply To ..]
My decisions (or not) are based upon what my unemployment will pay, period. You do not know my financial background. If I had money, obviously I would choose HI and go for 2 years.

All I wrote was that my 2 choices are most likely between Andrews and CareerStep, and that one would be covered completely by unemployment. You are lucky money doesn't drive you, but it does for me right now, and I wanted get the most bang for my buck and wanted some opinions on that. How would I know what a 'sensitive' issue this is for you personally.

Don't know how you think me able to 'steer prospective coders' in one direction or another, but I have to disagree. If anything steers prospective coders away, it might be some attitudes here, by discouraging open discussion and questions.

Sorry to ruin your morning by needing some advice and input. I won't expect you to understand...

Doesn't make sense - ruf

[ In Reply To ..]
If you're soooo worried about India taking over coding, why are you even researching/considering coding courses?

?? I posted, to hopefully get some insight on a new career - MTheaded

[ In Reply To ..]
Mostly, I have gotten kind and thoughtful responses, which are appreciated. But there are a few that are what I would expect more from the MT board.

Having been an MT for 20 years, starting out with full benefits, making 40,0000/year, in the end down to 23,000/year, no health insurance, treated like a nonperson, it is with caution I am trying to decide a new career. It has been devastating because MTs were saying the same things ~ that it would never happen...

Soooo I tried to get some insight and opinions on what actual coders think of the future of coding so I can make an informed decision. No intent to cause any problems but I can't help how other people have responded. There are obviously differences of opinion here, which is good, being a democracy and all.

Coding seems a natural progression from transcribing and something I would like, only I have LIMITED funds available having just lost my job of 20 years due to downsizing and job elimination.

I do not have the luxury of going to an actual college due to financial hardship - and wanted opinions as to which schools are best, if in fact there are going to be any jobs after 12 months, especially for new coders without much experience as it seems very hard to break into.

Someone mentions there will always be a need for coders, and that is true in MT as well; however, because of global influences, the hours are mostly 2nd and 3rd shifts, weekends, pay cut almost in half and benefits that are dangled in front of you like a carrot - mostly independent contractors where MTs are working 2 and 3 jobs because they run out of work. I don't want to end up there again, although I was lucky to be at the top in a top company so was offered severance pay, etc. But if I were to continue in MT, it would be like above.

I hope those upset over questions about India are right and that it won't happen to coding, but it just happened to wipe out my whole profession in so much that the jobs left are not enough to live on.

From a couple responses I have read, if this is a closed board, it should very clearly be noted as such in the forum listings.

There have been - constant naysayers

[ In Reply To ..]
about the India thing and coding. It was almost like every time someone got excited about coding, the person would come on and say, India, outsource. Sometimes people are just asking. It is a question I would ask also if I was coming from MT and was wary. Everyone should not be thought of as the person trying to stir something up. Some people are asking the question that anyone new to coding coming from MT would ask. Maybe there should be a header that says read the archives re: Coding and outsourcing first. Hope you find the right fit for your education and keep posting.

TY! - MTheaded

[ In Reply To ..]
I will get this figured out yet! My thanks for your encouragement.

one more question about Career Step - downtime

[ In Reply To ..]
The only reason I considered it in the first place was because it was listed on the AHIMA website. But you're saying it does not prepare one for the CCS? Why does AHIMA recommend it?

Because . . . - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
There is no requirement to prepare students for the CCS or CCS-P exams. The programs focus instead on the lesser credential, the CCA.

There is a belief that it is impossible to pass the CCS without 2-3 years of inpatient coding experience. This is true for most courses. Most graduates cannot pass the CCS without work experience.

The failure rate on all AHIMA exams is very high, sometimes more than 50% failures. This has always discouraged test takers. Job experience is thought to improve one's chances.

Coders traditionally did not attempt the CCS until they worked in inpatient coding for years. Coding existed in HIM before the exams. The first coders to take the exams therefore had worked for years. There is a tradition of learning inpatient coding on the job before you take an exam.

Most people just accept that it is something you have to learn on the job, not in a course, and for most courses this is true because they teach EXPECTING students to receive on the job training later. They teach what colleges have always taught, which is not enough, because they believe that is all they need to teach. Instructors just keep teaching it the same way they learned it.

Most coders here do not buy into this. The failure rate on the CCA is about the same as for the CCS, so what's the point in aiming low? Most coders here think you should aim higher. That's the only way to put yourself ahead of the herd of noncredentialed, CCA-credentialed, and CPCs who flock to apply for coding jobs.

All coding programs prepare you for the CCS to some extent, just because they teach ICD-9 coding, but they do not necessarily provide everything you need to pass it after graduation and without work experience. Approval does not require that they do so.

Career Step - Inquiring minds

[ In Reply To ..]
AHIMA recommends it and it's a good program, but they teach to CCA and CPC level. If you want more advanced coding certification, you will need work experience, more independent study or enroll in a different course in the beginning.

It is not a "recommendation" - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
It is an approval process, not a recommendation.

The approval just means a school paid their money and presented evidence that they meet certain criteria.

Not being approved is not necessarily bad. It does not mean the school does not meet the citeria. It can just mean the school found it too expensive to apply or that they are not part of a college.

Once again I am wrong - Inquiring minds

[ In Reply To ..]
And you are right, of course.

Actually, (s)he is right. We've had that discussion before - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
This is just one of the basic facts that people new to coding get wrong. It's no insult to your intelligence that you didn't know. It is important to correct incorrect information though. You don't need to be embarrassed about it.

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