A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Andrews school...which course to take? - JC

Posted: Nov 13, 2012

This may not be the right board, but I thought I would put it here. I have been interested in taking the coding course through Andrews for over a year now. I was just wondering if that is the way to go or if I should take a different course that they are now offering. They now offer billing and medical management. I know that medical transcription is out because I am already a transcriptionist and that is not going well. Any and all advice is welcome. Thank you.

I've been trying to decide about that too - downtime

[ In Reply To ..]
I know most here will say take the coding class, there are more opportunities for advancement and the pay is better, but it sounds so difficult that I think if you aren't totally committed to being a coder and just want a JOB, billing might be the way to go. Welcome opinions.

Opinions - Coder

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I think you should do what you WANT to do based on your on research into what the job is and what the job prospects and income are in your area.

I also think you need to be totally committed to whatever you choose because if you are not your lack of interest will communicate itself to prospective employers later.

If all you want is a JOB, I suggest you try getting one of those JOBS at MacDonald's or Walmart. I t should not take more than a few months to help you adjust your interest in a more stable job that offers better pay and opportunity.

I think you are mistaken if you think billing or medical office management are just JOBS, Billing is a lot of hard work and MOM requires organizational ability and way above average people skills. And you do need to learn some coding along with them, so I am not sure either is for you if you fear "difficult" topics.

At any rate, judging the difficulty of a career by what random people here say, or by what you think they are saying, isn't very smart. Coding is, in fact, going to be too difficult for many people. It requires the ability to succeed in college-level work, make logical decisions, and to be able to read and understand medical documentation.

Not everyone has that level of reading ability. When you look at community college students in coding classes, the ones who wash out do not read well. When you look at RHITs and RHIAs who do not want to or cannot code, many of them do not read as well as those who code.

If you read well, coding will not be overly difficult for you. You will still have to make an effort to learn new material, but that is the case with anything.

If you are an MT, you probably have above-average literacy skills. If you could not read and write well, you would not be an MT. Consequently, you are probably well-suited for coding.

Oh well someone below said it was just a job - so that is why I said that

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pardon me; did not mean to offend. I do not want to work at either McDonalds or Wal-Mart.

Absolutely no one was offended. - Gave advice because you asked for it

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You asked for advice and advice was given. It disagreed with the view you expressed, but that does not mean anyone was offended.

Your career is up to you. I would not make the decision based on negative, anonymous opinions. Do your own research so that you will be more likely to come up with something that suits you.

I actually talked to Linda Andrews and Glenda.. - JC

[ In Reply To ..]
and they both had some pretty good valid points about taking billing rather than coding. Linda said if you don't have the time or money to put into coding right now you could start with billing to get your feet wet. She also said I may like billing and decide not to go to coding. I have a lot to think about. I would go with what you want to do. I'm really thinking about starting with billing first and seeing where that takes me.

That is a reasonable approach - Coder

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Time and money are valid concerns that would point toward starting wih billing. Coders know about billing, even if they are not the person sending the bill out and tracking payments, so learning billing first is a valid stepping-stone.

Reply - Anonymous

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The Andrews "test" for admission into the billing program is a joke. Basically, they ask for your personal information (home address and telephone number required) and then ask you to summarize your work/educational background and tell why you want to enter the program, it's supposed to assess your ability to follow directions, I would think almost anyone would meet their criteria. Then, after you "pass" you are asked to submit your application along with your payment. I had problems with that, maybe you don't.

Interesting - Hmm

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Interesting that you seem to see some kind of nefarious plot in that.

You don't approve of what they are testing. (Maybe you were offended that it was too easy or perhaps you didn't pass.) You don't like having to tell them who you are, which I would guess enables them to know who took the test. Them you don't like being accepted and allowed to enroll. (Hmm, wasn't that why you took the test? To enroll? So what IS your issue?)

I have taken their tests before. To me, they seem like no-brainers. I passed, but after working for some years, I realize that not everyone can pass a test like that.

I don't know what you expected to be on a test like that -- calculus or something -- but I think following instructions and demonstrating literacy by writing why you want to take the course is probably right on the mark.

You might not realize that many, many people do not have the skills required to read the course materials and understand them, or to succeed on the job, and that many more do not understand what the job is to begin with. Most online schools simply allow everyone to enroll, take their money, and let the ones who cannot make it fail. Andrews, at least, tries to sort out folks who wouldn't make it. That seems honest and ethical to me.

Intersting that you would find fault with that.

Testing - Anonymous

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Asking for someone's personal info is not a test. This school is supposed to be cream of the crop, I just expected them to have higher standards or different criteria for admitting students to their program, perhaps some multiple choice questions (HIPAA, medical terms?) in addition to the bio.

HIPAA? Med terms? BEFORE taking the course?? - That would be unreasonable.

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It would be unreasonable to expect a prospective student to already know the material in the course. Why would they need to take it if they knew it already? And where would they have learned it?

Asking for your name and phone number is not the test, but how else would they know whose test it was?

Sorry, but you seem to be way off the mark with your expectations.

It may be that you think these courses are for experienced medical professionals, but they are not. Coding and billing courses do not require any expertise in medicine or HIPAA because they teach what you need to know.

Not an unreasonable expectation if... - Been there

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That's not an unreasonable expectation if they are testing someone who is supposed to have experience in the industry. The programs at Andrews are generally written for someone with no medical background so I think that's why they don't test that way. Unfortunately on this board it wouldn't matter. If a program actually tested those things because it was geared for someone with experience in health care, this group wouldn't like that either.

Andrews School - Kat

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I am attending Andrews School in the Coding Program. I find Coding to interesting and challenging.

Coding/billing - Anonymous

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Most of the coders I know are clueless about billing as they consider it demeaning and beneath their dignity. Billing is a job, coding is a job, MT is a job as are many other things, it does not mean one is better than the other.

Coding probably does have more opportunities - downtime

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for advancement, I mean. But not everyone is looking for that; it kind of depends on your stage of life among other things.

Are you a coder or biller? - Question

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Doesn't coding pay more than billing and offer more room for advancement into other areas of HIM? Both coding and billing pay more than MT. Yes coding and billing and MT are jobs, not anyone better than the other, but maybe some want better pay and are willing to work hard to get it. You seem to paint coders as clueless divas who think they are better than everyone else. Is this really the case?

Divas - Anonymous

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From what I have read here, clueless no, divas yes. I do know that this board does not represent the majority, though. I'm a trained coder working in HIM. I was an MT and that job paid better than anything else but my department was closed and the work was outsourced. Entry level coders generally are paid similar to billing clerks but there are more opportunities in coding. Credentialed coders, especially those with a CCS, make better salaries than those with a CPC.

Divanomics - Clued-in Diva

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When MTs look at coding and billing salaries, they often look at entry-level positions as if that is as far as it goes. If the entry salary somewhere near you is X, they think every coder makes X and makes X forever.

I think this is because MT salaries have been stuck for so long at one rate, either some pennies per line on a national level or something like 10/hr at the few hospitals that still have MTs. Everybody makes the same thing and it never seems to change. (Except, now, to go down.)

It is helpful to look at the AAPC and AHIMA salary surveys. The 2012 AAPC survey showed the average coder salary around 40K, I think, with certified coders making more. The average salary is not the only salary. Some coders make less and some more.

The mistake most MTs make is thinking that is the end of it. It is not . . . coding progressses into higher levels of experience, higher-paid specialties (certified interventional coders were making 70K at one point), other jobs like documentation improvement and compliance, and auditing. There is often a considerable amount of overtime available at hospitals, as well as bonuses. RHIAs who can code can work for contract auditing firms that pay well enough that I know some doing straight coding making more than 100K part-time in addition to their day job.

Keep in mind that the coding positions you see advertised are often entry-level and the salary listed for ANY coding position is likely to be the low end for that job. Higher positions are often filled from within. They are often not called "coder" or "coding," either. You can miss entire groups of jobs if you do not know what they are called at a particular organization.

Billing jobs, on the other hand, tend to have a narrow pay range. That job does not go much of anywhere. Billing salaries are generally below salaries for straight coding, although coding andcoding-related jobs keep on going. Entry-level coder salaries may overlap the top of the biller range at some facilities, but that reflects the high need for training provided to those coders and the coder can move out of that range usually within a year or two.

Coders start thinking like divas because their employers tend to treat them that way. There is a shortage of qualified coders, for one thing. It is not easy to learn and most employers cannot train them on the job. The job is complex and the employer's financial health depends on coding. This is not just to bring in money, but to d so ethically and legally. The stakes in coding are very high.

Divas - Anonymous

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I made nearly $20 hourly (I did not work on production) as an MT and when that job went away I took a $3.00 an hour pay cut to work in a HIM/coding related position. I'm nearing retirement age. Perhaps I'll work my way back up to where I was, perhaps not. A lot of how far a person advances in the coding world depends on their age and the job opportunities available to them where they reside. Everyone respects what you do and are in awe of your amazing knowledge, but keep in mind that just as MT saw a "wage readjustment" and other professions as nursing and teaching went through the same thing, it can happen with coding too. Employers are only willing to pay what the market will bear, even if you do bring in money.

Hear what you are saying - Happy Diva

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I hear what you are saying, but wonder if you are aware that you have an almost overwhelmingly negative, sour, embittered take on things.

OK, fine that you found a HIM position when your job was cut, but do you have to express your dislike/contempt/resentment of coders, or whatever it is, here? And seek to discourage others from moving into that profession?

I think most of the "Anonymous" posts on this forum now are yours. The writing style and negativity are the same in all. They all seem to have a "yes, but" thinking to them.

To Happy Diva - Anonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
I was merely pointing out that MT salaries are not all the same, not everyone makes, or was making $8 or $10 to per hour. For those who are, I hope you can do what makes you happy. Not everyone who goes into coding will make more money or as much as they expected to make, there is nothing wrong with telling the truth. And I'm not sour or embittered, just someone who realizes that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

That view is very negative. - Diva

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You may think you are just balancing out the lies we coders are telling, but we don't think we are lying. What I say here might not be true for YOU, but it is true for every coder I know.

And you are not even a coder, so why you feel qualified to speak against an entire profession is beyond me.

You just seem to have a mouth full of half-chewed sour grapes that you want everyone to see.

The fact that you had or have an unhappy experience with coding, including hating the coders you cannot qualify to join, does not mean everyone will have that experience.

If you don't like my writing style - Ms. Yes But

[ In Reply To ..]
That is your problem. It is obvious that you are the "yes, but" person and I don't care for that either.

It is the attitude and content, - not the writing style. nm

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nm

Managers need to be able to - anon

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make decisions. Not being snarky but, why didn't you start the coding course yet?

Are you talking to me? - OP

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I was wondering if you were talking to me. The reason I haven't taken the coding course yet is due to finances.

It is difficult to come up with the money, but self-teaching and - Decisions are free

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Coming up with the money is a problem for everyone. However, you do not need money to make a decision. Once you make it, you will have a reason for comng up with the money. It will be easier. You will have a goal.

Many students have funded tuition with yard sales. Some sell all unnecessary furniture and appliances, extra dishes and kitchenware, toys, books, decorations, tools, and extra clothes. People will give you things to sell if you ask them and explain what you are doing. They also save by not buying coffee at work, not drinking, stopping smoking, cancelling cable TV, not going to movies, eliminating a phone line, selling extra cars, washing cars on weekends, cooking for friends and relatives, cleaning houses, painting, and doing yardwork.

Instead of viewing tuition as an exorbitant expense, try seeing it as an investment. Once you get a coding job, you will earn that money back quickly. Scraping up 1K and 200 a month is worth it to get a stable job with an average income in the mid-40s.

Andrews tuition is not that high, either. Some schools charge 29K or more for less.

Nothing says you have to attend a school. You can self-teach coding if you really want to.

In the last year, you could have completed Andrews. You could have completed an AAPC course in a few months. You could be certified and in a job by now. If you do not make a decision and set a goal, you will be in the same position a year from now . . . still wondering what to do.

Drinking the Kool-Aid - Choose carefully

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Selling your personal possessions and having no life to pay for coding school? I'd give that one some serious thought.

Well . . . - Coder

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It isn't going to be an easy decision for everyone. Selling extra stuff in order to learn a new occupation that can get you from NJA-minimum wage to a decent job seems reasonable to me. Having no life while in school seems unavoidable because if you are watching TV, eating out, going to the movies, and everything else you are not studying. I don't think that drinking and smoking contribute much to a life.

Then again, I felt that I was drinking mountain spring water, not Kool-Aid. I was willing to swap some time and money for a better career. Now that I have that career, I am happy with my choice. The effort was well worth it. It turned out to be a very small effort for a big return.

Will that kind of investment be worth it for you? Just going by your response above, I would say no. If clutching onto personal possessions and having "a life" is that important to you, well, that is what is important to you. Even if a course was free, it would be unlikely that you would finish simply because you would be unwilling to divert your attention from your "life." Absolutely nothing wrong with that, either. We all have a right to choose for ourselves--it would be a very boring world if we all chose the same things.

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