A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

To the poster below who said unions can't stop - technology changes

Posted: Aug 26, 2010

I agree with that wholeheartedly. But unions CAN force fair compensation for the skill and experience with the new technology. I have never understood the concept that MTs should be paid half of what they normally get paid for straight typing when doing VR editing.

When doctors learned how to use da Vinci, endoscopic procedures, etc., did they get paid less because their new equipment helped them to be more proficient. Do doctors get paid less for EMR because a lot of times they don't have to dictate anymore in ER or radiology records? Why does the MT have to suffer with half the normal salary for new equipment that WE didn't even request.

It is so blatantly obvious that the new VR platforms like DocQscribe, M-Modal, BeyondTxt, and others have the capability to set their voice recognition to reject reports at a certain correction percentage. If they want to pay us half for VR, then the correction percentage should be VERY high so that we don't have to correct a lot in the report. They set these things at 75% or 80% so that we have to correct a great deal of the report and it takes almost as much time, if not more. They could set it lower, but they don't because then it gets kicked to transcription mode and they have to pay more. They leave the garbage to us while trying to sell us the "you can make double!!" spiel.

Or they could weight the VR lines also. If we do have to correct more, give us more than half in the report. If we only have to make 1 or do corrections, leave it as it is.

They do NONE of this, and a union could correct this. Unfortunately, I see very few people who want to band together to force changes. Sad.

The industry has MTs so beaten-down, theyre afraid of - unions, and even their own shadows. Sad. n/m

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Agree that we could gain by working together - Reluctant Cynic

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for a common goal if only we could stand together on even one issue, but the working people of this country have been decisively divided and conquered over the last 30 years, and we're well trained to attack each other instead of our common problems.

E pluribus unum -- a forgotten rusted tool abandoned out in the weeds somewhere.

As Ive said before, getting women to unite on anything - is more difficult than herding cats.

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n/m

GREAT POST! I think you make some great points! - melmt

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Think of what could be accomplished if MTs would band together, quit spending so much time attacking each other's opinions on these boards, and seriously discuss and consider pros and cons of an MT union ... I don't know much about unions but would love to learn more and hear other MT opinions.

This is a huge issue - difficult to solve except with time - LK

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Let me first say I come from a somewhat different perspective, having spent my first career in corporate management, including sitting on the management side of the table in union negotiations and being responsible for analyzing and setting compensation for positions at all levels as an HR Director.

The VR/MT pay dilemma is fairly unique, in that it is based on a theory rather than fact that MTs "should" be able to produce a certain percentage more on VR. To put it bluntly, this theory was shoved down the throat of the MTs that were put on VR, and most have found it didn't pan out. Basically, you have been handed a 15-50% pay decrease and told you need to deal with it, and that if only you will work "smarter," everything will be OK. If this happened in any other business setting, the employees would have a choice - either accept the pay cut or vote with your feet and find a different job. The same is true here. Nobody is going to come in and save the situation or demand that "fair" wages be paid, whatever the heck that is. The only thing that will change wages is if enough MTs leave these ridiculously low-paying positions, because then the MTSOs would be forced to raise pay to lure qualified MTs back. The MTSOs hold all the cards right now, particularly with a full-blown recession going on. It's just not that simple to walk away and find something else either in MT or outside of it. But that's the only way wages will start to go up again. If you stay and take the low pay, they will continue to pay it.

How I dealt with it personally was to refuse to do VR. I have never done it, and I never will with VR as it stands now because I know I won't make enough money. I will quit MT before I work for that little money. But I know not everyone has that luxury, and it's a tough spot to be in.

But I think it's important to remember that market forces drive pay rates, and if qualified people are available who will accept very low wages, the companies will pay them very low wages. When they can't get qualified people, wages will have to rise. Unions can't save the MT industry. Hate to say it, but I'm not sure anything can save the MT industry. You can either sink with it or find some way to swim. There may come a point where enough good people leave that the wages will start to rise again. We'll see.

I agree with refusing to do VR. We didnt get what - they promised us with it, so why do it?

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Personally, I would want MORE money for VR than for straight transcription, just to compensate for the boredom-and-tedium factor VR presents.

Maybe the time has come to not only reject VR, but to start educating newbie and wannabe MTs in school, or considering school, about what they're getting into.

Maybe the time has also come to put some real effort into exposing the sham most of these schools are. How can it be legal to put up ads promising $60K a year earnings for MTs and take the students' money for "preparation" for a "career" that practically doesn't exist?

VR needs to be exposed for the sham that IT is, as well. It's one thing if you're using it to tell your carphone to dial your wife. It's a whole 'nother ballgame when that technological joke is transcribing a person's medical record.

Current and prospective MTs need to start rejecting the trash wages they're offering us, too. MTs in school should be encouraged NOT to put all of their eggs into the MT "basket", but instead, to concurrently study another field as a backup. "Just in case."

MTSOs need to have their leash shortened and jerked a little, too. Their choice of MTs should come from just one source: America. NO offshore. And preferably no VR, but if it's going to be used, then US MTs should be very well-compensated for dealing with that mess on a daily basis.

It should also be mandatory that if an MTSO is going to have a financial stake in an MT school, then there should be a direct percentage of MTs hired from that school, in order for them to legally be able to collect money from tuition.

With the aging of the country's workforce, it's time that age and experience discrimination in the workplace be eliminated. Times, finances, and demographics being what they are, most people are going to be working much further into old age than previously. And many more won't be able to retire at all. Experienced, long-term employees should NOT be "weeded out" in order to save money, as MTSOs and other businesses are currently doing. Payscale should directly reflect a worker's experience in their profession, as well as longevity with any one company.

It only makes sense. It's fair. And it's about time for these companies to be forced to do right by their employees, and to for ONCE, start to do what is fair and what is right.

Even the owners of these corporations were once employees sometime during their lives and, times being what they are - they could very well be so again if their corporation fails. If I were in their shoes, not only would I have wanted fair treatment and an honest day's pay for an honest day's work when I was an employee, I would sure as heck not NOT want to be worrying about getting fair treatment as an employee in the future, should my business go under. Seems to me, the best way to make sure your business doesn't go under, would be to encourage your experienced workers to STAY, not to leave for lack of pay.

Reply to poster who replied to unions can't replace technology - you missed the point

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Re-read my post. There is no VR editing going on, the MT's have been replaced as in gonzo, out the door. The union can't stop that if technology has made it so that there is no longer a need for an MT to do the work. Unfortunately Radiology, is one of the hardest modalities hit by VR because it is easily recognized by VR technology. If you get the right platform and the docs who are willing to make it work, it works! I have worked places where I edited it, and I have worked places where the doc's were more than willing to edit it themselves.

My other question for you is, have you ever worked in a union setting as an MT? I would venture a guess that you have not; because those settings are few and far between and when you find them they are organization specific; not an all across the US, hospital, clinic, at-home, IC status. The MT community as a whole has too many variables to try to make a union work for us. When a union enters into negotiations for a contract the points they negotiate are very specific based on their demands. It would be impossible to try to impose the same specifics on every MT contract across the U.S. It would be great if it would work, but there is no way to be able to that.

Unions in general have LOCALS - sm

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Each LOCAL or group of locals has its own contract. Contract negotiations are specific to that local depending on when each contract expires. CWA (Communication Workers of America) for example covers many locals throughout the country, each with its own specific contract. For MTs, union contracts would be specific to the individual MTSO or hospital. No union covers membership contract negotiation nationwide.

Also.... - SM - Aspiring coder

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For the MTs working on site for hospitals and clinics, wouldn't the entire facility have to agree to a union, not just the MTs? Things are pretty good where I work, I'd actually hate to rock the boat. I've worked at 2 hospitals before where unions unsuccessfully tried to organize the employees. Union reps would be on the sidewalk outside the hospital morning, noon and night trying to recruit people. Personally, I didn't care for it. Naturally I wouldn't be against better wages and benefits for MTs, I just don't know how it could work and how you would ever get the MTSOs to come on board. All they would have to do would be to send the work offshore where it would be done for less money and by people who don't care about benefits. All the clients would go along because everyone is trying to save money these days. I really would like to hear a plan about how to make an MT union work.

Unions have locals and? - not gettin it

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Sorry I am not trying to argue with anyone but I was a union rep. in a medical center. You seem to think a "local" would be able to represent every "business" in that specific area. You find variables within MTSO's all over the country, it is called business and they are free to pay, require, limit whatever they want to do. If an employee does not like the way they do business they are free to leave and go elsewhere. How do you think a local could possible have control over every hospital, clinic, MTSO and IC in an area, when each one has their own business practices? It would be great if it was as easy as you want to make it seem. Negotiations always vary from situation to situation within a facility or a network of facilities and to try to represent ALL MT's is never going to be possible. It would be great to see it able to work but even locals vary throughout the country on wages, benefits, etc. Again I say, we work too many different situations, home, on-site, IC it can't be consolidated into every MT will get X amount of compensation.

First step- Define an MT - Next step define compensation

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The MT profession AS IT IS TODAY is not "union-able." An MT does not equal MT in all situations.

So you have newbies who want "fair" compensation; you have rad MTs who want it too; then there's MTs who call themselves MTs but wouldn't know a reference material if it hit them in the head; then there's MTs with 30+ years experience; MTs who just do clinic; MTs who just do ops; MTs who do it all; MTs who are multilingual; MTs who refuse to do ESL; get my drift?

And what is "fair" is totally open to debate.

Then you have what the market will bear.
Transcription is and always has been a cost center to hospitals. That alone means it's in the "eliminate it as much as we can" category.

A union won't help with any of that.

People want to scream no CMT for me, but the reality is, at least it would begin showing the industry that you can pass a standard test as opposed to those who think they can and never could.

Just my 2c which I'll keep for myself and NOT donate to a union thankyouverymuch.

Your "2 cents" is about all youll be getting per line - not too far in the future. - R.Raccoon

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Except - savvy MT

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I learned a long, long time ago to make sure I was very employable. I still get greater than 10 cpl working for an MTSO. I won't work for 7 cpl. I won't do VR for 3 or 4 cpl. Instead, I've made sure I've got a good grasp on database creation and maintenance and am able to begin marketing myself as the point person for EMR to local offices at an hourly rate.

I need no union to teach me how to get my worth. And I'm not bragging, just responding to your 2c worth of comments.

Amen to that. - LK

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The secret to success is and always has been to watch out for yourself and not depend on others. You are the only one that truly has your best interest at heart. Unions are not the answer, they too have their best interest in mind, and that best interest involves taking plenty of your hard-earned money in union dues. They are in business to keep themselves in business, and for no other reason.

Savvy MT, I'm totally with you. We as individuals have to position ourselves to get what we're worth. I've taken the same approach - I also won't work for 7 cpl or do VR. If and when the time comes that there is no other option, I will move on to something else.

By the way, I think your idea of marketing yourself to local offices is great. We have skills that will still be needed even when MT as we know it now has gone down the tubes, as long as we are willing to adapt.

I wont work for less than 9cpl, or do VR, either. - Still doesnt help when you get NJA all week!

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Or when you're working on crap software. There are only 24 hours in a day. And many of us have reached a point where they need more than that just to earn a day's pay.

Sometimes, 9 or 10cpl can actually equal out to 2cpl. I can market myself til the cows come home, and it's not going to change the fact that MTs are being put on sale, cheated on pay, cheated on lines, told there are NJA when in reality, most of the jobs have gone offshore, etc.

I'll "market" myself when, and if, someone even worth all that effort ever materializes.

But I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one.

Youve been lucky. So far, anyway........ - n/m

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I disagree - savvyMT

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I don't leave things up to luck. I've worked with companies who had NJA or who did this or that and I left. I moved on. I *MADE* my luck. I think that's the whole point. If you're in a situation that sucks, find one that doesn't. As long as you have the skills to back it up, you should be able to find an MT gig that suits you fine.

If working almost 24/7 hasnt brought any "luck" our - way yet, then I gues we"re just out of it.

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Luck, that is.....

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