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Epic and coding - sm

Posted: Dec 21, 2011

With so much talk about Epic taking away MT jobs, do you think it will do the same with coding? Maybe not just Epic but technology advances will affect coding down the road, yes or no? So worried I just wasted a year of my life studying coding and it may not be a stable career.

Amazing Charts and other EMR software - Savvy

[ In Reply To ..]
All the hullabaloo is about EPIC, but keep in mind that there are many other EHR programs that eliminate the need for coders. Amazing Charts is one, but it is geared toward physicians' practices rather than hospitals. Still, AC is just one of several.

The coding cheerleaders keep insisting that "hospital coding is different," and while that may be the case all the IT people I've talked with say that coding will be eliminated because of technology -- just like MT -- in only a few years.

EPIC - susan

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Just who are you? Are you a coder? What I would like to know are there any coders out there who have actually lost their job to a program like Epic or Amazing Charts?

The IT people I talk to all - to a person - say that doctors are going to be eliminated - sm

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When I talk to IP people, I mention the crazy articles I've read that doctors are going to be obsolete because of technology. Patients will hook up to a machine. No doctors or nurses will be needed. They tell me that this is going to happen. You know what? I'm not going to hold my breath. People can say and/or predict anything. What usually happens is, part of what they say may actually come true. SOME doctors may be eliminated or become obsolete. Parts of the job that nurses do may be eliminated. SOME hospitals may get rid of coders, but my belief about that is, it's going to cost them huge amounts of money when they try it. Coding is related not only to statistics about disease and use of hospital facilities, but also with the hospital's income. They don't mess around with that unless they are ignorant. That means some will. All will not.

Yes, and . . . - Coder

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Yes, exactly! I will add that in addition to statistics and revenue there is the specter of error hanging over those facilities. Errors lead to accusations of fraud. Errors lead to repayments and huge fines. Fraud leads to prison terms for facility officials. This actually happens.

IT people love to talk about how their products will do it all, but it never does. Fifteen years ago one company said their software would let facilities hire people off the street to code - the software would tell them what to do. That still hasn't happened and that company stopped making those claims. Not only do you need trained coders to use that software but they have to be particularly good ones to keep the software from screwing it up. Another said their software would check the codes. Unfortunately, the software doesn't think. It just presents warnings every time it sees certain codes and does so without regard for circumstances. It is the software equivalent of the boy who cried wolf . It cries wolf when it sees chickens and squirrels but is silent when the wolf shows up because it thinks the wolf is a dog. Its database does not necessarily match the coder's needs, nor is it capable of any kind of decision. Most coders bypass its warnings entirely.

If you think softwre will be taking over anytime soon you are do not understand coding. If you think facilities will allow software to code by itself you do not understand medical reimbursement. If you think the kind of job that might be done by a computer is the only kind of job in coding you are misinformed about the field.

So what if frontline coders are replaced by software? Somebody still needs to audit.

What MTs aren't getting about coding is that is a field with more depth and scope than MT. There are important and even crucial monetary and legal consequences to coding.

The way I see it - jm

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The coding field seems to be getting bigger. We are so INVOLVED in charts in the hospital to get accurate data and documentation; they would NEVER risk sending it overseas. It is a very complex process with many, many rules and regulations that you have to keep on top of. Hospitals are investing in good coders, outside agencies, coding advisors, and coding educators, to make sure they are compliant, before the RAC (recovery audit contractors) come in. I can't see them losing sight of all this by outsourcing it away. CMS (Medicare) is always looking to cut, insurance companies are always looking to cut, and hospitals are being pressured in every way. They are fighting back with teams as above. If you don't follow or know the rules, you lose big time. Once they invest in that team, they will not turn around and throw it all away. CAC (computer assisted coding) may come in too, but you will still need the coder to make sure it is absolutely correct. If that CAC can come in and prompt that doctor to put the diagnosis specificity in before the chart gets to me, please, bring it on. I won't have to hold up the chart for a query. The encoder system is CAC. I love it. It enhances my work, makes it more efficient and faster.

No, I don't. Not that they won't try of course - sm

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It's like lawsuits. Anyone can sue for anything. In the same way, anyone can come up with an idea that's supposed to save money, do away with this, that and whoever, but just because they do it doesn't mean that it's reasonable or will work. I see coding doing just fine for many years to come. I also see lots of years of people coming up with ways to do away with it, and failing at it. That's just my opinion.

No career is stable - Coder

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When I hear MTs talk about "stable" careers, it just makes me want to shake them! There have never been stable careers. Everything changes and you just have to change along with them.

Would you want a doctor or lawyer who had not changed in 30 years? No. Why should MTs be different? Coding certainly is not different.

Coding changes every year. After a year in school, you should know that. You should also have an understanding of the wide variety of career paths in coding. Saying you are now worried about this tells me you did not learn what you were supposed to learn. It also tells me that you are going to have a lot of difficulties because you fit the pattern of many others here in that griping, worrying, and hand-wringing are more of a focus for you than getting on with change and the self-development necessary tp deal with it.

Instead of worring about things you cannot change and over which you have little control, you should be getting a job and planning your next career move.

Who cares if rote coding jobs go the way of the dodo bird! I surely do not and neither should you. EHRs are creating jobs right and left. If your idea of career planning is to moan about the injustice of change, you will be left behind with all the other Eeyores.

Well said. - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

"EHRs are creating jobs right and left" - how is that so? very curious. - MTLC

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I did some research on the EHR IT schooling that is being offered and sometimes paid for or reimbursed. I am concerned that this training will not really make people job ready. What jobs are really being created through EHR? Do you have any knowledge as to whether it would be better to pursue coding as opposed to EHR courses to position oneself in the workplace?

Answer - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
Did I say anything about taking EHR courses instead of coding? No. What I have been recommending is that you learn to code so you can get a decent job NOW. After you have done that you will be in a position to move on in coding-related fields and jobs, including those dealing with EHRs.

I would not favor the EHR training being offered now because the salaries will probably be low and there are few jobs available for it yet. That training is entry level. It is not the type of job I was talking about. I meant EHR related jobs that BEGIN with or start from a solid coding background.

My opinion from what I have been hearing from people who bought into EHR training - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm hearing that there are few, if any, jobs following the EHR training now being offered. It sounded unrealistic to me in the first place, more like something administrators have thought up to justify their own jobs. In other words, it sounds good in theory, but there is no practical application of it. The only people getting paid related to the EHR training are the Washington bureaucrats who thought it up and the lobbyists who get paid for promoting it.

You can add college administration to the Washington bureaucrats and lobbyists promoting it - Squeaky Wheel

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There has been a lot written recently about all the people who go through courses like this, making lots of money for the colleges. When they graduate, they find that there are no jobs and their degrees are pretty much worthless. There are no practical work skills involved. They are coming out of the courses with no practical knowledge. They have facts, but nothing to do with those facts.

It's the new 'new thing'--the trend of the year unfortunately - Next year they will push something different

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This year the new thing for them to promote is EHR. Next year they will either come up with a newer new thing or come to a brilliant lightbulb moment that coding is really the answer to all problems. Now that will scare me when that happens, because they always go too far on whatever they do. They push their new thing until it fails and they make it obsolete.

College HIT depts - sm

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AHIMA lobbied for and promoted this and their affiliated college programs are able to expand into offering IT coursework to take advantage of federal funding.

If you were a facility implementing an EHR, you would be looking for 4 year degrees in IT or masters, not 9-month certificate holders.

This is a lot like the CCA. Nobody has a clue what it is, so there are no jobs available.

It's great for the college, not so great for the student and taxpayers - Squeaky Wheel

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Unfortunately, they are turning people out from these programs by the kaboodle! Problem is, there are very few jobs waiting for them and they've put that time and effort in just to end up still jobless.

Just another instance of the college administration thinking of their own status rather than working for the good of their students. The taxpayer ends up paying for it all through federal aid. After all is said and done, the graduate, who still doesn't have good job prospects, has to get some other kind of training.

EHR training - anne

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I actually have a friend who was laid off with all the cuts recently at a major MTSO and she landed a job training and implementing Epic. Her pay is very very good, and they are paying for her training. She has had to travel to complete some of the training, and when all is said and done she has to take a test and pass it to keep her job. However, there ARE some of these nice cushy jobs out there, but there aren't accredited schools as far as I know. To get one of these jobs, you need to get your foot in the door at the hospital level and THEY will train you on the system they are using. I have looked into this with local hospitals in my area without success so far, but it doesn't hurt to search the job wanted listings!

Thank you - MTLC

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I appreciate that information. I didnt mean to imply that you encouraged taking an EHR course, but I wanted to ask your opinion about it. What you said confirms what I suspected when doing research. It seems like the EHR programs I have looked at have a lot of filler or are related to computer programming, which I do not want to do. I would rather be a coder.

Thanks again.

EHR - curiousgeorge

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I am currently an MT. I'm not so sure about those certificates not meaning anything. I was recently awarded a grant through a local college just for one of these certificates in EHR. Now, the requirements for the grant were that one had to currently work in the medical field and, also, one had to already hold a bachelor's degree.

I was so excited, but after I received the textbooks, I discovered that much of this is simply data entry! I just do not want to sit and enter information. Don't get me wrong, any information in our current medical world is good, but I have since honed in to a different career, cancer registry, which is also data entry but also demands an extensive knowledge base.

I do, however, agree that coding is invaluable to getting a good job now AND for transition into something later, if need be. I live near Pittsburgh and am always following the job ads for UPMC which is huge. I rarely see ads for MTs, but I see LOTS of ads for coders.

Just my 2 cents.

Good points - Thanks for posting

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

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