A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

After reading all these posts... - anon

Posted: Jun 07, 2015

.....why does AHIMA even offer the CCA? I am taking their Coding Basics Progam, is that a waste of time? Why would they even offer it? I interviewed with a lady who is the associate vice president of client service of a large medical billing company that has been around since the 1970's and she told me this was a good program and that she herself did an online self-paced program also. She has these credentials after her name: CPC, CEMC, CCP.

I wish I had the funds and the time to go to Andrews, but I am trying my best with what I have and can do. I know for sure I will keep going on for additional training and schooling to try for the CCS or CPC, but just wanted to get a start in this field. Maybe everyone gets their start differently and we should just all be supportive of each other. I do appreciate all the positive advice given on this board.

Because of the high failure rate of college graduates on the CCS - The short answer

[ In Reply To ..]
What you've asked is a fair question. It's not realistic to become a medical coder in the broad sense of the word if you have neither time nor finances for it. It does take an investment of time, effort, and money. I'll say more about that and then tell you what I think would be your best option once you finish your Coding Basics program, which is exactly that, "basics" as it states in the course title. It isn't intended to be a mastery level course so that you are ready to be employed as a medical coder.

Graduates of most courses, even the several years long college programs, have a hard time passing the CCS. The CCA is a way to give those graduates something to show that their training wasn't for nothing.

The important question that you're asking though is what it means when you want to get a job. It's rare that a CCA can get a job doing medical coding, but there are jobs in and around coding that can transition over time into coding.

The lady you talked with was from a medical billing company. That's not medical coding as you would see in a hospital, for example. They do billing, and as part of that billing, they have to use basic coding skills to plop a few frequently-used codes on the insurance form. That's not coding in the broad sense of the word. It's very specialized. The lady you spoke with is even more specialized with her CEMC, which gives her expertise in Evaluation & Management, a good thing to have, but again, she does not have a broad knowledge of coding.

I'm not sure what in the world the CCP is or where it comes from, but she does have the CPC, which is a good thing. That means that she can do outpatient coding, although the CPC doesn't specify the intensity of the skills a person has in outpatient coding. Some barely make it through that test and others are expert at it.

My advice is for you to follow the path of your adviser, the lady with the CPC, CEMC (a rare credential and not normally recommended for getting a job) and the CCP, whatever that is. I can't place that one. At any rate, go for that CPC and then go toward the Medical Billing side of things rather than the Coding end of it.

You can make this work. I'm hoping that the poster who calls herself 'Coder' will come back and advise you further. She tells it like it is, and I'm often amazed at her insight.

There are times and situations when the best you can do is not enough. In those cases it's better to do nothing at all. Go do something else, not coding, until the situation and finances change. I don't think that's the case with you. Go at it knowing that you can go back to that woman after you finish your training and get at least your CPC. See if she has a spot for you in her organization. If not, there are people getting jobs with just a CPC, if they can pass employment tests. Most can't. Be the exception, even if you have to do additional studies on your own. Don't just barely scrape by passing that CPC test as so many do, meaning they can't pass employment tests and never get hired. Excel in it. Forget the CCA. That isn't going to get you anywhere unless the job you get fills in the areas that are lacking in your education, which rarely happens. In those very rare positions that do fill in for incomplete coding educations, you would be eligible after one year of directly applying codes on the job. You could count the times when that happens on one hand. Don't put your eggs in that basket. You would be setting yourself up for failure.

Instead, concentrate on the outpatient coding for now. Start making some money. Save for a better education down the line just in case your outpatient isn't paying off for you the way you like. It's hard to fix an incomplete coding education, but you sound motivated and sincere. I get tired of hearing that a coding education is just what you make of it when that isn't true. You absolutely cannot learn what is not being taught. However, you can make the best of what you are being taught, develop a plan, and then stick to that plan. As one of the group of Andrews School fans here, I wish you could be one of us, but understand where you are coming from. I wish you great success.

Thank you - anon

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you for the input and advice. I appreciate you taking the time to help me. I have an associates degree in a health field and 17 years experience as an MT, so I don't need to take all the anatomy and physiology and medical terminology which I have taken already, so I can just take the classes I need through AHIMA. I looked at the Andrews program and it is actually very similar to AHIMA as far as the classes go, so I am going to stick with this program and see how it goes. AHIMA is the one who accredits these other programs so I am sure they know which classes are important. I know there will be much more learning along with this program afterwards and I will do whatever I need to work toward the CPC or CCS as I intend to stick with medical coding, I am not interested in the billing part. Thank you again and I wish everyone well in their careers! :)

Question for you ... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm confused by something you said ... that you don't have the money or time to go to Andrews.

See the link to the Coding Basics Program below.

It takes 12 to 24 months, it seems, going by the fact that there are 13 courses which would take 1 to 2 months each.

It costs $225 x 13, or $2,925, plus books, which will be about $1,300, for a total of $4225. All of which has to be paid or purchased before taking each course. If you complete one course per month, that will be $225 to $425 a month.

It also only teaches BASIC coding. That is why it is called Coding Basics. You are taking a bunch of courses that would otherwise prepare you for the CCS, but because the coding is limited, you cannot take the CCS. It is unclear if you could pass the CPC.

You said you are doing the best you can, want to just get started, and that you want to go on later for the CPC and the CCS. The AAPC CPC and CIC courses, which would be your only options -- considering that you would not want to pay for Andrews, which you seem to feel is exorbitant -- cost around $2,000 each. Plus books. And it is not yet clear if you would pass the CCS with the CIC course. You certainly would not qualify to take it without two years of working experience in inpatient coding.

So, your education is now going to cost $4225 for the CCA, plus another $2000 to 4000 to get the credentials you should have gotten to begin with. And, it is going to take 1 to 2 years for Coding Basics plus 4 to 6 months each for the additional AAPC courses. NONE OF WHICH HAVE INSTRUCTORS. And you could not sit for the CCS for two years.

If the CPC and CCS were what you wanted, you could have done that in 12 to 18 months and a flat $4500, all books included. With instructors who are experienced, CCS-certified, CPC-certified, working inpatient coders or auditors. And a two-year, no-interest payment plan, with a $600 down payment, that is $162.50 a month.

This is why I am confused. You say you made the best decision you could, because you don't have the time or money.

Can you explain how that could be? How did you reason this out? Do you mean that you felt you did not have the money for Andrews because it costs about $275 more? Really?

You want people to support you, and they do. They support YOU, but that does not mean they have to agree that your decisions are good ones.

I am an experienced coder and auditor who advises on hiring. I have the CPC, CCS, and several other AHIMA and AAPC credentials. My organization does not accept the CCA at all, nor does it consider AAPC specialty certifications like the CEMC, nor does it accept any nonstandard, unrecognized certifications like the CCP. We look for more than a billing company needs.

It would be inappropriate for me to support your choice if I would not hire you based on it. It would be inappropriate for me to not point out that your choice did not take less time or money.

As I recall, you asked about this before and we told you the truth, but you did not believe us. You also did not do much research, because you are still unclear about exam requirements and other issues.

My advice is to finish the course you started if you are determined to do so. Take the CCA, but also take the CPC. You will have two tries on it. You may pass it, but if not you can study and take it again within a year.

And, please, do some research so you have some understanding of different organization's requirements. You will absolutely not be hired anywhere if you cannot explain with more than "a woman at a billing company told me."

It all comes down to the instructor's credentials, books, and topics covered - See message

[ In Reply To ..]
Whatever course you take, your instructor has to have real coding credentials, not an RHIT or an RHIA, but definitely a CCS and preferably a CPC as well.

Being a nurse does not make you qualified to teach a coding course.

Having a Doctorate in Education does not make you qualified to teach a coding course.

The only credential that makes you qualified to teach coding students how to obtain coding credentials are those credentials themselves. Anything less means your teacher CAN'T CODE and can't teach you to either. You'll end up with lots of busywork and extraneous information and obsolete software that coders don't need to know, but you won't know how to code.

If you remember that very important fact about instructor qualifications, you will be ahead of the crowd of those who think they are coders but can't get a coding job, because they can't code.

The next thing would be the coding books that are used to teach coding at the level that you will need in order to pass those certification exams. Often someone with lots of miscellaneous initials after their name but no coding credentials writes their own material, which almost 100% of the time is next to worthless, except for maybe the terminology, which is passable even though real terminology books are much better.

If you can remember that about the value of SOLID EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL, you will be way ahead of the crowd of those who believed they were learning to code, but weren't, but didn't know it until they found they weren't qualified to sit for certification exams and wouldn't pass them if they did, because the course didn't include what was necessary to pass the tests.

People often go for the cheapest option available, and end up losing all of the time and money they spent on it. It's better to do it thoroughly from the beginning, with qualified instructors and professional materials.

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