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BOS3 question, is it 3-cm lesion or 3 cm lesion? - Starving MT

Posted: Apr 30, 2010

I have the BOS2 which says the hyphenation should be "a 3-cm lesion," but "the lesion measures 3 cm." I was recently told that the BOS3 changes this and now they don't want hyphens in there at all.

I don't have the money to buy the BOS3 yet, but if there is anybody who does have it, would you be able to tell me what it says about hyphenating or not hyphenating this? Have they changed this now?

According to BOS3 (sm) - dln

[ In Reply To ..]
Taken from BOS3 regarding hyphens (pg 278)

"Do NOT use a hyphen to form a compound modifier between a numeric value and its metric unit. According to the National Institute for Science and Technology: In the expression for the value of a quantity, the unit symbol is placed after the numerical value and a space is left between the numerical value and the unit symbol. Even when the value of a quantity is used in an adjectival sense, a space is left between the numerical value and the unit symbol. This rule recognizes that unit symbols are not like ordinary words or abbreviations but are mathematical entities, and that the value of a quantity should be expressed in a way that is as independent of language as possible."

Examples given:
3 cm wound, NOT 3-cm wound
2 x 2 cm lesion, NOT 2 x 2-cm lesion or 2- x 2-cm lesion

This is probably way more information than you need, but suffice it to say no more hyphens!! :)

WHAT? - oi vey

[ In Reply To ..]
I hate stupid changes. One more thing to remember so I don't get docked on QA. Great. Thanks BOS

Thank you so much!!! and just one more question - Starving MT

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank so you much for looking this up for me. And in things like this, the more information the better, so what you wrote was exactly perfect for me to be able to understand this.

So, no more hyphenating 3-cm lesion. But from the explanation, they talk about "between a numeric value and its metric unit." So I'm guessing that this probably wouldn't include inches?

So, it would be a "3 cm lesion", but a "1-inch needle"?

Found it! (sm) - dln

[ In Reply To ..]
After a bit of research, I finally found it! On page 282 of BOS3:

"Use a hyphen to join a number and a NONMETRIC unit of measure when they are used as an adjective preceding a noun."

Example: 5-inch wound and 8-pound 5-ounce baby girl

This is something new to me as I did not know there was a distinction in regards to the hyphens between metric and nonmetric. You learn something new every day! :)

Audit docked me for just what you are saying to do - Daisy

[ In Reply To ..]
We can't win with this company! When I got audited last month, I got docked for NOT putting a hyphen between 2 cm. I was told to do it this way: 2-cm

I am completely confused now!

Honestly (sm) - dln

[ In Reply To ..]
I honestly think that nobody should take the BOS as the "gospel" of MT. Many times, the client profile takes precedence over the BOS, and many MTSO's and clients do not want you to follow the BOS at all! In my case, my company wants us to follow the BOS3; however, with SR we are allowed to be a little lax in terms of hyphens, no hyphens, etc. So, I would go with whatever your particular employer wants in terms of hyphens/no hyphens. Of course, if you happen to get docked next month for putting in a hyphen then you might have a dilemma!! LOL! :)

no, not like that, it depends if client prefers BOS 2 or BOS 3 - laxity not allowed

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

you have to ask your employer if they follow BOS 2 or 3 rules - bos

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

BOS3 - 1mt

[ In Reply To ..]
BOS2 or BOS3 - I don't go by any of this. I go by what seems right. Do you think that a doctor looks at this and says ... "oh, that's not how BOS3 says it should be written out so this must be wrong"... I don't think so. Think about how you read something out. If you see something written as 3 cm you read it as 3 centimeters. If you see something as 3-cm you read it as 3 centimeter. I always type "3-cm (centimeter) lesion" or "lesion was 3 cm (centimeters) long". I have NEVER had a problem with my ANY clients inserting the - . Regardless what BOS says, the medical information for the permanent record is accurate.

I have never seen 3-cm (centimeter), etc... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
You sure work for a private doctor as an IC.

If you test with an MTSO and transcribe like that I doubt that you will pass if you go "by what seems right?"
Really?

3-cm - 1mt

[ In Reply To ..]
Really? You've never seen 3-cm lesion or 2-inch laceration, etc.? I only put the (centimeter) for reading purposes, I do not type that in the report.

yes, I have seen 3-cm AND 3 cm (BOS 3) - ha ha

[ In Reply To ..]
but never (centimeter) added to it in parentheses.

What MTSO will pay you for these added, unnecessary 9 characters? What do you mean by "reading purposes?"
Everybody knows that cm means centimeter.
LOL, this is really funny!
REALLY !

Uh...just butting in here, but I THINK she meant - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
to emphasize the difference between centimeters (lesion was 3 cm) or centimeter (3-cm lesion). How else could she convey singular versus plural without spelling it out? The hyphen implies plural, without it is singular. Get it now? She was pointing out that there IS a slight difference in the meaning when you add a hyphen. And no, I would not leave (3-cm lesion)(as I typed up above) in my report either, just in case you were wondering.

EDIT: Oops, meant hyphen implies - singular. Now I have

[ In Reply To ..]
probably confused you even more than you already were! Sorry.

huh? lol, the hyphen does NOT determine singulat or plural - chuckle, chuckle

[ In Reply To ..]
maybe your rules apply on the planet Mars.

If you do not want to adhere to the
BOS, then don't, but do not invent weird punctuation rules on your own, not applicable on the planet Earth.

OMG! Missing the point completely. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not talking about BOS, I was talking about the above poster's reason for liking to use the hyphen. Yes, the unit is always typed singular, and no, the hyphen doesn't actually imply singular, but when you say 3-cm lesion out loud, how do you say it? 3 centimeters lesion, or 3 centimeter lesion? She was saying that when 3-cm is used as an adjective you would pronounce it in the singular form, and using the hyphen shows that. That's really all it was about. Nobody's arguing about the BOS. Just talking about personal preferences here. Nobody ever said it was a "rule," either! Chuckle chuckle....:)

Oh, and not everyone is a slave to the BOS...lucky I'm not! It would suck to have to adhere to something that changes so frequently, and was created by...nevermind.

what you say in your post.... - see inside

[ In Reply To ..]
"She was saying that when 3-cm is used as an adjective you would pronounce it in the singular form, and using the hyphen shows that."

is pure nonsense. What has singular or plural have to do with the usage of hyphen or no hyphen?

Wow and omg!

What you say... - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I no longer believe you aren't getting what I'm saying, I believe you're just being obtuse...but here goes: When you use/see 3-cm, with a hyphen, it never stands for 3 centimeters; it stands for 3 centimeter. Do you think you would use a hyphen for 3 centimeters? If so, can you give an example of when you would do so? Again, I'm not arguing whether hyphen usage is correct or not; that's another issue. The hyphen doesn't have to do with singular or plural per se, only insofar as the only time one would use it before cm would be if the word centemeter (if the sentence were read aloud or in one's head) would be singular. Unless YOU think it could be plural with a hyphen...which maybe that's the case, and the reason you act like you're not getting what I'm putting out!

Oh well; at least you're keeping me amused! :)

duh? The unit is always typed in singular, has nothing to do with the hyphen - new rules??

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

The meaning of the hyphen in 3-cm lesion - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Probably a lot more information than any of you want to know, but here goes:

The reasoning behind putting the hyphen in a phrase like "3-cm lesion" is because AHDI/AAMT (the people who publish the BOS) decided to extend standard English punctuation and grammar rules to include metric measurements.

The reasoning behind this was that "3 cm" is an adjective which modifies the noun "lesion." Neither the "3" or the "cm" could be taken by itself (i.e. stand alone) and thus it must be "3-cm" to indicate that this is a "unit" (compound adjective) which modifies the noun "lesion."

It is the same theory behind the phrase "well-developed male," where "well-developed" is the adjective that modifies the noun "male." Neither "well" or "developed" would be taken on its own (because that would create a whole new and different meaning), thus the adjective "well-developed" must be hyphenated.

But the only problem with all of this is that AHDI/AAMT was wrong when they decided to extend this English rule to include metric measurements in BOS2. That's why they reversed this, to correct their error in BOS3, and it is now "3 cm lesion" without the hyphenation. It took the final word from the National Institute of Science and Technology to get them to correct this error, but kudos to them and they finally corrected it when they came out with BOS3.

Bottom line though is a lot of companies still use the BOS2, so a lot of MTs are still required to transcribe this incorrectly because "that's what the BOS2 says to do" (even though the BOS2 was incorrect when they published that).

the reason why AHDI changes rules back and forth is - BOS

[ In Reply To ..]
to make money by forcing people to buy the modified, newest version which gets more expensive by each edition.

Why don't they just publish an addendum that lists only the changes? Would be cheaper.

The rule in the next BOS4 will introduce AGAIN the hyphen.....

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