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Snow Bunny, for doubting Thomases, please let them know - Answers

Posted: Nov 23, 2009

That the transcriptionist sitting at home is doing the dictating or re-dictating for the Dragon equipment. I told them about a friend who had and found it a time consumer. She was not an M.D., dictator, a transcriptionist who had hand issues. It is late here and I am heading towards bed but please let folks know about you can use it and teach on the home side.

for your "Missouri" gals - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]

Dragon is merely a different output device. Instead of typing, you are re-dictating or what is termed â��echo dictating.â�� The regular MT presses the foot pedal and types what the dictator is saying, with or without editing (some like their dictation verbatim). You can type everything out or use an abbreviation expander. Thatâ��s the usual way it goes. --- With Dragon, you press the foot pedal but instead of typing what is spoken, you repeat it. The ideal situation is listening and talking at the exact same time, just like you listen and type at the exact same time.

Yes, itâ��s time consuming when you first start to use it, but I don't think it would be more so than learning to use Instant Text or Active Words. A lot depends upon what you put into it at the start (word lists and document analysis), but isnâ��t that true of life, in general?

Think of it in terms of doing an ESL. I donâ��t think anybody can swing through a new one at their regular speed. It takes time to learn each ESLs speech pattern. But, with sufficient practice youâ��re going to be able to do them at a decent clip (hopefully). --- Itâ��s the same with Dragon. Time and practice.

Go to You Tube and listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln_aWg6V834&feature=related

Not the most exciting example, but itâ��s realistic and not a â��sales pitch.â�� Thatâ��s the program in action, after itâ��s been properly trained.

The bottom line is this ... each individual is different. You have to look at your particular situation and finances. I think anyone who is interested in learning and/or using the product should research it thoroughly. Listen to lots of videos on You Tube (some are good and some are not). Go to forums where real people talk about the product (www.knowbrainer.com is excellent). Try to find other MTs who are using the product and talk to them about how it works for them.

And keep one thing in mind ... the stuff the MTs are talking about here, with respect to VR (editing), is the end result of continually UNTRAINED speech recognition software. Like any child, itâ��s going to make the same mistake over and over again unless you are willing to put the time and effort into disciplining it. Dragon (like any speech recognition product) is the same way. The end result depends upon the user behind it.

this under the assumption that the redictating - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
voice output by Dragon will be (hopefully) BETTER than the original dictator's voice.

After that the draft document has STILL to be edited by the redictating MT.

Too risky and lot of wasted time!

Thumbs down from me!

But you finally got the ANSWER, right Ms - Ms Doubting Thomas....

[ In Reply To ..]
Just love moments like this.

ROTFL! - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
:}

Snow Bunny, do not say I did not warn you - VR lover

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Now you and I are supposedly in choots, how is that spelled. Anyway once they got the answer then you and I might be trying to sell this. She said my answer was crap, hearsay along with wishful thinking. Why the wishful have no idea. These are some of the most miserable folks on this planet. You were answering all their questions and now the tables have turned. Just let them slink back off under to their rock from wence they came and leave them alone to do what they do best, miserate (is that a good word, if not making a good one up for today).

Yes, thank you; and your answer proved that it is CRAP and...nm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
ONLY A SALES TACTIC to sell the

Dragon VR software!

Or this is a "brainchild" of your friend and it failed miserably!

Thank you!
I wanted to hear that.

If you post something on the forum, you should be able to "back it up," not just put "hearsay" and "wishful thinking" as FACTS, and if smart people DOUBT it tell them that they are 'doubting Thomases."
CR@P.

You really need to take some time off, perhaps see a good - VR lover

[ In Reply To ..]
therapist, have a glass of wine, do some "me" time only, just chill. You are absolutely so filled with hating you are bringing it out in your posting. You are going to blow a gasket pretty soon if you don't get your anger under control. Take a walk, pet an animal, do something good for another person, daydream a little. Oh, and lastly please have your blood pressure checked, might be higher than you think.

YOU are a joke! What was this 're-dictating advert' for? Cr@p, want to seem VR savvy! Ro - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

LOL, why so aggressive? Admit your baloney, lol...nm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Oh, I admit it - VR Lover

[ In Reply To ..]
Nah, I have admitted all that I know. I do VR so the assumption (love when people assume because most times assumptions are wrong, just like now). I like the post above where another has tried Dragon several years ago and found it to be slow. Why not dog her out now, find another one to spew the hatred towards. The only person I am interested in making anything is little ole me. As far as aggressive, all these caps and screaming is not doing you any good. Take some time off from work, cut back to part time like me. Works wonders for the mind.

this shows again, you do not understand, nothing was personal...nm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Yeh, not personal, just asking why so aggressive? - Apparently you are 1 who does not

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"get it."

my production proves it works - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
And I'm sorry that more people are not having the success that I am.

And as far as posting something on the forum to back it up, what is it you want me to post? Short of you sitting next to me watching me use the product, I don't think anything else will shake your belief system. (palms up, shrugging shoulders).

you did not make it clear that you are ACTUALLY using it..sm - whatever

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I really doubt that this speeds up your production.

If it is so productive why don't more people use this method?

yes, I am actually it on a daily basis - Snow Bunny

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It depends upon my mood. Sometimes I like to type and other times I prefer to use Dragon.

And, yes, it really speeds up my production. Keyboard with AutoCorrect and I'm around 300 lph with a good dictator. Dragon alone and I can dictate over 400 lph with ease. It depends upon the dictator. The slower the dictator, the less lph per hour.

As far as your question, "If it is so productive why don't more people use this method?" ... you would have to ask them.

I guess it's like trying to lose weight. All different "diets" and "exercise programs." Weight Watchers may work for one person but not for someone else. That individual may praise Atkins, which failed for another individual.

I don't know how else to explain it.

there are no assumptions - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
>>>voice output by Dragon will be (hopefully) BETTER than the original dictator's voice.

I don't think we're on the same wavelength here. If I speak into the microphone and say, "The patient is a 45 year old white female" what will appear on the screen is The patient is a 45-year-old white female" (note, the hyphen appears even thought I didn't say it, because it's been trained to do that). I set up a user file for MY DICTATION. If you were to sit down at my system right now and dictate, without having created a voice profile, there would be a lot of mistakes in your dictation, 'cause Dragon doesn't recognize your voice. Does that make sense?

>>>After that the draft document has STILL to be edited by the redictating MT.

Not with Dragon. The doctor using the product doesn't need an MT to edit their work any more than they would if they were writing out the notes with pen on paper. The doctor will correct the errors on the screen before they go to printer.

You're at a great disadvantage because you don't use the product and you're confusing it (like I once did) with hospital-based dictation system.

You talk yourself into circles, does NOT make any sense!.. - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
Why redictate in the first place?

Just put the hyphens into your expander or autoCorrect, immediately, WITHOUT redictating.

The redictating is a TOTAL waste of time. A propos, the redictating MT could make ADDITIONAL mistakes during dictation. What happens if the redictating MT does not UNDERSTAND a term or word? What then?
This is baloney.

You do not get it, or you do not want to admit that this "idea" is cr@p.

If it weren't cr@p, don't you think that others would have had this idea EARLIER than your friend or you?

he/she does the same thing he/she did in VR or straight typing, nm - stop and figure it out

[ In Reply To ..]
s

it's simple, because you can redictate what they are saying faster than, sm - you can type it

[ In Reply To ..]
You train the system to your voice and then redictate it so it knows your voice. That way, it knows what you are saying, just like the VR you do has to be trained to the physician. In this instance it is just you dictating each different physician, so you are not having to train it to so many different voices. This is not for doing voice recognition. That would be redundant now wouldn't it. You seem to be misunderstanding this whole concept. This is for someone strictly typing out what the physicians are saying, not a document that has already been typed by VR to begin with. Any mistakes would not be any different than the VR that you are already doing. You edit it as you go and can correct it just as you do with the VR from the hospital. Of course others have had this idea since voice recognition was started. I'm sure the technology has gotten better for the voice recognition than when it was first invented and now more transcriptionists or utilizing it or considering utilizing it. You wouldn't need to use your expanders or autotext as the computer would be trained to automatically put in what you have trained it to do. Hence, the beauty of the whole operation.

what happens if you do not understand something? You put _____? - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
How can you redictate something that you do not understand?
Cr@p in, cr@p out?

If it is not meant for VR, why was then the original post an advertisement for voice recognition, Dragon, what Dragon is, namely a VR software?

I think I got it right, from the beginning, but you all put apples with oranges.

Still, it is cra@p, nobody could convince me of the contrary, till now.

When the personal attacks and insults begin, like VRlover did - this is a sign of defeat.

You are a work of art! Sign of defeat? - VR lover

[ In Reply To ..]
Oh, I was awake last night just worrying my head off about how things went yesterday on this board. I am feeling overwhelmed, defeated (don't know about what but I will think more about it), have no idea where my next meal or money is coming from, just worrying myself to death. Oh, just woke up from that nightmare and imagine, all is coming up roses. You and Chante certainly have posts so similar, makes me think hmmmmmm....Noticed no one had a word to say about the other MTer on here who said her VR picked up the ESLs really good. Did you miss that? What about the person who said they tried Dragon many years ago and did not use? Where was the come back for those? Only mine, oh I see. I am now going to go and cry because I feel so, what was that, oh, yes, defeated. You all are a laugh a minute.

something is wrong with your ...sm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
comprehension, or logic, or whatever.

As far as I 'got it,' Chante is against VR, she is pro-straight, whereas I prefer VR, therefore my screen name 'vrvr.'

So, you seem confused and Chante and I cannot be the same poster, this for your hhhhhmmmmm? Also getting paranoid?

is this MT Stars or sci.med? nm - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
.

it was about 10 years ago, I'm sure technology has made if faster, sm - was not saying for or against

[ In Reply To ..]
I was simply stating that I had tried to 10 years ago and my experience with it then. That's a long time ago. Apparently if the hospitals are using VR now, then a VR system for personal use, has probably improved since that time also.

of course you would put a blank, sm - not sure why this is being made

[ In Reply To ..]
so difficult to understand. The VR that you yourself would do would not be any different than the VR you would pull up on your computer from a doctor, only you actually have to input the voice. If you were doing VR on a physician's report that came up straightaway for you and the computer didn't understand what the doctor said and you didn't understand what the doctor said, you would erase the stupid stuff the computer typed and leave a blank and send to QA. That's not crap work. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand. The rules for producing a quality document should not change in any situation, VR, straight typing or VR the dictation into your own computer. Of course, not all transcriptionists are alike and I guess it would depend on the quality of the transcriptionists themselves. Generally if you type quality work, you will VR quality work. If one were going to go with a speech recognition program for themself, I don't see why the rules of producing quality would change in any way. VR is not rocket science and the Dragon that is being spoken of here is not either. There were some questions being answered here. I don't think the string was suppose to cause conflict, just to answer some questions for some people. No one is denying you your opinion. But just as you would like to have your opinion, others have their opinion also.

Warning- soon others on here will say you, Snow Bunny and I are selling this - VR lover

[ In Reply To ..]
Apparently you have not read all the posts stating Snow Bunny and I are trying to sell this.You cannot like something on this board unless you are plant, mgm, suit, salesperson, let me see did I forget anything, oh, liar and such goes here also.

do you really think that this 'redictating' is economical? It's cr@p..sm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
The fact is I do not understand how this dictating method should make anything easier!
It's only waste of time.

Why should Dragon 'learn' my voice better than a doctor's voice who dictates every day, partly every day, the same things, and VR makes in spite of this and in spite that MTs correct the same errors every day, the same errors and does not learn from the corrections?

Why do you assume that Dragon will learn my voice better?
It's cra@p, believe me.

do I think it's economical? - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
Well, let me see ... I'm averaging 400 to 450 lph per hour ... yeah, I'd say it's economical for me.

As far as why Dragon would learn your voice better than the doctor's voice ... it's because when you use the product you are constantly correcting the errors, whereas the hospital-based system is not. And, I think that's the problem with your perception. You see both products as one and the same. They're not.

The hospital-based system loads the software, the doctor is taught what buttons to push to stop, start, rewind, etc., and that's the end of that. The software "hears" the words and types what it believes the dictator is saying. Now, the doctor says something like, "2 year old" but the system will type "too year old." For the hospital-based system, the document is printed out, it goes to you, you correct what's on the screen, and the completed report is returned. (do I have that correct?) The problem is, nobody is telling the software "two is wrong, 2 is correct," so it's going to keep making the same mistake over and over again.

Well, that's not what I do. I edit while I dictate, so as soon as I see the error I immediately highlight it, open the Correction Dialog Box, type the correct information (2-year-old), say "click OK," and the correct entry replaces the incorrect one. I immediately dictate "2 year old" and if all goes well I'm going to get "2-year-old," If not, I repeat the process until it sticks (which is does for me after the first try).

And THAT is the difference between the two. With the hospital-based system, nobody is correcting the dictation errors IN THE SOFTWARE for each dictator, and if you don't do that the software can't learn to do things correctly. I can't emphasize that enough.

VR can only do what you tell it to do. It doesn't rationalize. It doesn't process information like the human mind. It can't tell the difference between "ice cream" and "I scream," unless you teach it to recognize the difference.

From my perspective, your mind is made up and nothing anyone says will change it. That's okay. I've said all I can. From this point forward, if I respond, it will be what my husband says to me when an argument is escalating:

Whatever you say, dear.

what you explained in your last post makes sense.....sm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
If nobody corrects mistakes also in the VR system, then the VR software is not going to learn, this is correct.

But how do you explain the fact that some VR softwares are better than others? It is always said that eScription is better than the others. Why is this, then? Who corrects the mistakes in the eScrption's system? It must be, as you explained just now, somebody or something else than the MTs who are editing the draft document, as their corrections, as you explained, does not affect the VR software.

What you are doing is 'front-end' VR, so you are advertising front-end VR.
This is actually advocated by some VR vendors that the doctor dictates, looks at the screen and immediately corrects his own mistakes, and I guess he will have been trained to correct the mistake also in the VR system by using the 'correction dialog box.'

If all doctors switch to the front-end method, this would be the end of back-end VR. This would be very troublesome for many doctors, but not if they combine front-end VR with EMR.

I guess that the front-end method can only be done by very experienced MTs, then it will work. Still, I am not so sure if it is economical regarding the spent time.
Thanks for your last comment explaining what you are really doing, front-end VR after redictating.

I'm glad it's making sense - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
>>>But how do you explain the fact that some VR softwares are better than others?

I suppose the same way anyone would explain that one car is better than another. Itâ��s what goes into making the product.

>>>It is always said that eScription is better than the others. Why is this, then? Who corrects the mistakes in the eScrption's system? It must be, as you explained just now, somebody or something else than the MTs who are editing the draft document, as their corrections, as you explained, does not affect the VR software.

Iâ��ve never used a platform so I canâ��t answer your question.

>>>What you are doing is 'front-end' VR, so you are advertising front-end VR. This is actually advocated by some VR vendors that the doctor dictates, looks at the screen and immediately corrects his own mistakes, and I guess he will have been trained to correct the mistake also in the VR system by using the 'correction dialog box.'

Youâ��re making it more complicated than it is. Simple explanation: you use your fingers on a keyboard, I use my voice with a microphone.

>>>If all doctors switch to the front-end method, this would be the end of back-end VR. This would be very troublesome for many doctors, but not if they combine front-end VR with EMR.

A lot of doctors are already switching to it, and they should if the product is working for them. Their success or failure is not your problem, so don't take ownership of it ... UNTIL it has a direct impact on you.

>>>I guess that the front-end method can only be done by very experienced MTs, then it will work.

No, it can be done by a newbie as well.

>>>Still, I am not so sure if it is economical regarding the spent time.

Time spent ... doing what? --- It seems to me that youâ��re under the impression that I spend an exorbitant amount of time correcting errors. I donâ��t. I have little to no errors, and the ones that I have usually occur when I don't articulate correctly. Aside from that, working an 8-hour shift (which I can't anymore), I could do about 1,800 lines using a keyboard (no proofing) and close to 3,000 lines (with proofing) using Dragon.

Now, how am I less productive with Dragon than using the keyboard?

With 'time' I mean redictating. Another question:...nm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
You say that you do not have many errors to correct. Do you mean errors in the doctor's dictation or what you dictated into the draft document?

Do you redictate the whole report or only the errors?

This is not that hard to understand, sm - fg

[ In Reply To ..]
The transcriptionist is redictating the whole report. This would be for a transcriptionist who is utilizing this program instead of typing. SnowBunny is saying that she has trained her program so well, that she has few errors. She is not telling you the physician's do not make errors. Let's say your doctor hems and haws around, well she can dictate the whole sentence into the program without the heming and hawing around and get the sentence correct the first time without having to backspace, delete or whatever.

thanks for answering...nm - vrvr

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

No, I think you still got it wrong - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
You don't redictate something that you do not understand. With the keyboard you insert this: ____________ and with Dragon I would have a command that will do the same thing, when I say, "insert blank."

Again, Dragon is merely a different output method. Instead of using your keyboard to put words on the screen, you are using your voice.

And as far as trying to convince, I'm certainly not trying to convince you of anything. Merely answering your questions. If you don't like or want to accept the answers, that is your decision.

But, if you're ever in the Nashville area, please send me email. I'll be happy to pick you up, bring you to my house, and let you see the product in action.

thank you for explaining it so well nm - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
.

it makes perfect sense - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
>>>Why redictate in the first place?

For me, it takes the pressure off the hands and arms, I have a higher line production than I would using the keyboard, and it breaks the boredom of the work.

>>>Just put the hyphens into your expander or autoCorrect, immediately, WITHOUT redictating.

Have that already. I redictate faster than I type with an expander, so why type?

>>>The redictating is a TOTAL waste of time. A propos, the redictating MT could make ADDITIONAL mistakes during dictation. What happens if the redictating MT does not UNDERSTAND a term or word? What then? This is baloney.

A â��regularâ�� MT could make typing errors, too. And if the redictating MT does not understand a term or word they leave a blank, just like they would if they were using the keyboard.

>>>You do not get it, or you do not want to admit that this "idea" is cr@p.

What don't I get and what do you want me to admit? I use the product on a daily basis, successfully.

>>>If it weren't cr@p, don't you think that others would have had this idea EARLIER than your friend or you?

And what idea is that?

I understand what you are saying, I tried it years ago when first, sm - came out but too slow then

[ In Reply To ..]
I could type it faster than the computer would type it out for me. I had to wait for each line to come up slowly. It was unreal how slow it was. Sounds like it must be faster now, and I am not sure if it was Dragon or another program but could swear it was Dragon. That was like almost 9-10 years ago. I wanted to try it out and just edit as I went along with the dictation. You know, speak a few sentences and read along the way, then correct any errors, speak more, read and correct. It would have been great had it been faster than it was at that time.

I know what you're saying - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
I first started using Dragon around the same time, and like you the line production was too slow. That's why I gave it up.

That was version 3. They're up to version 10 now. LOTS of improvements have happened since then, particularly with respect to the speed things appear on the screen.

I'm sorry there's so much cynicism about things, from people who have no first-hand experience with Dragon, who go by hear-say from people who had no success, or who are confusing the product with the VR system that is used in hospitals.

But, I suppose it's a lot like religion (any and all faiths). You're going to believe what you want to believe.

I was only stating what my coworker had tried - VR lover

[ In Reply To ..]
Did not know you found that as a no-first-hand experience who go by hear-say as a Debbie Downer type thing. Others on here did not believe my story in the first place, if anything they thought you and I were actually representatives of the Dragon company trying to sell the item. My work is almost 97% VR and good system at that. Have a nice day.

I would never be good at sales - Snow Bunny

[ In Reply To ..]
'cause I would have a tendency to talk people out of buying something. :}

Dragon for me is like an abbreviation expander is for somebody using the keyboard. No more and no less. It works for me, so I use it. No different than Instant Text working for one person but Shorthand works for another.

VR experience.. - Old and Tired MT-2!!!

[ In Reply To ..]
I have used Dragon off and on for years, have never been able to afford the "Physician" version but do use the Preferred version (125 versus 1200) I just remember when I first used it I thought I was having a stroke, was firing too many neurons at a time me thinks!! LOL...listening, "redictating" i.e. talking at the same time I am listening and repeating it CORRECTLy and coherently for Dragon, working a foot pedal, typing some of it that Dragon doesn't get, editing it, reading, all at once. (I would NEVER depend totally on VR) ALWAYS PROOF IT...

It was good brain exercise. I don't use it that often as everyone has said..training is essential, but I still don't think it is good enough, otherwise we wouldn't have so many VR editors. It is still somewhat cumbersome but depending on what the work you do, might or might not work for you.

I do believe it will come to the point that VR will be the norm rather than the exception, except for the very worst ESL and then I'm gonna be a Wal-Mart greeter before that is what I TRY to transcribe all day. Good luck with it.

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