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Any thoughts on whether coder or cancer registrar - sm

Posted: Apr 30, 2015

is the more logical jump for an MT? I love MT, but I only have a vague sense of what skills these other 2 involve. Thanks for any input. I am weighing my options.

Re: CTR - Curious

[ In Reply To ..]
I've been taking classes for two years for CTR. It is way more involved than I had ever dreamed. I am an MT for 20+ years with an associate degree in nursing, and this is one of the most challenging things I have ever done.

Thanks. That makes me wonder if it is right for me. - sm

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I am surprised that it takes so long even with your degree and experience.

It takes that long because there is no way around - the formal college work.

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Please check the exam requirements very carefully.

Thanks for this hint. I have a master's degree, but I was - sm

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not sure if it would count or not. If I decide to go this way, I will definitely find out.

No, it won't count for much. There is a much better - option for you.

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No, your master's won't count. When you start talking about 2 and 4 year college programs, or another master's, they only care about your bachelor's, and they may become very rude about it, too.

CTR is an associate degree program. They might or might not give you transfer credit for things like English and math if what you had was an exact match for theirs and was within 5 or 6 years.

When you finish that, or an RHIT program, you will have only an associate's degree. That's fine if you had no degree before, but it is not really so great for you.

There is a much better option. If you have a bachelor's, you can complete the requirements for an RHIA by doing a Health Information Administration certificate at an AHIMA accredited university. Some take two full years or more, but the one at the University of Toledo is about a year. They even give online students in-state tuition.

So, rather than slaving away in a junior college for two to three years to get a job that will max out at about 45K, you could do an HIA certificate in a year, get the RHIA, use your master's with it, and have loads more opportunities with pay that can be twice that or more.

Yes, you could code with that, and you might find yourself supervising CTRs.

For you, that is the fastest, least expensive, best paying, and most challenging choice. That is what I did. Don't have any second thoughts about it, ever.

Interesting idea. I will have to look into that. Thanks! - nm

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CHIA at University of Toledo - see link

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See the clicks link below. If that does not work, paste this into your browser:

http://www.utoledo.edu/healthsciences/depts/health_rec/him/CHIA_Program.html

They are very similar - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
In my opinion, coding is easier to get into, offers much more advancement and more other career options, pays somewhat better, and has way more available jobs.

You do not need a degree to code, nor a particular program, and the experience requirements for credentialing are a lot less. You can learn coding in varied environments, including self taught and on the job. You must take CTR in a formal program.

Coding brings in revenue, which makes it worth paying coders well, rather than CTR, which only some facilities have because it is an accreditation issue...it costs money rather than making it.

Facilities may have only one CTR, but 30 or more coders, and a bunch more HIM folks (jobs which often stem from coding), and there are hordes of coders also working outside facilities in the physician-services sector. Lots more opportunities.

If you already work in TR, you will know if you want to pursue it and you have the experience. If you do not, there is a real problem getting the experience you MUST have. You can't take the AHIMA course, either, because of that.

I think coding is a better choice.

Thanks. This information really helps. - nm

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Fewer jobs as a CR - Interesting Question

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I've known a couple of women who were interested in cancer registrar. It turned out there weren't many jobs. One lady was a medical coder who used that as a path to CR. That worked well for her. The former MTs I know who got into medical coding seem to love it and can't stop talking about it. The ones that were trained at a high enough level to pass the CCS had no problems getting their first job. I've heard that if you have less than that you don't have as many job offers and can have a tough time getting started. The CPC is good to have along with it, but the CCS seems to be the key to success as a coder. Experienced coders have told me that you used to be able to get into a job as a file clerk and work yourself up, but that isn't the accepted way to do it now. You need to go in with your credentials from the start most places. You can have another kind of hospital job while you are getting your coding training but they expect you to be credentialed or credential-ready before you get a chance at the coding jobs.

The coding course you take determines what credential you are eligible for - Caution

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Some of the new coders can't get jobs because they aren't eligible for the CCS exam, where the jobs are.

Thank you both for these tips. It helps. - nm

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both seem good choices - poncho

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I am an MT also and wanted to work as a cancer registrar. There are different paths to achieve that according to the National Cancer Registrars Association website. I took 2 coding classes and tried to get a job recently but all 4 job sites turned me down. I guess it is because I don't have experience. I would rather be a cancer registrar though I think.

No, it is not entirely because you have no - experience.

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It is more likely because you have no credentials. Coders get hired with no experience every day, if they have credentials.

If you only took two classes, you might not have enough to tell an employer that you can do the job. If you never got a credential, that employer just thinks you can't code. If you don't even know about the credentials or think they are unnecessary, employers pick up on that and really back off.

If someone has the right credentials and the right training to pass employer tests, they should be able to get a job in coding.

I have credentials, maybe not right ones - poncho

[ In Reply To ..]
I've got RHIT credential, and some coding jobs list certification as CPC, CCS, or RHIT, RHIA, etc. I guess the no experience plus RHIT makes me unsuccessful in finding a coding job. Took coding as a backup plan since transcription is fading but so far hasn't worked out.

Now you are an RHIT? - ???

[ In Reply To ..]

In your first post, you said you were an MT who took two coding courses, but could not get a job.

Now, you say that you are an RHIT and you took coding as a backup plan.

That isn't how it works. Something is wrong with that. If you are an RHIT, you would know what it is.

My experience with cancer registry training... - Still Cranky, still on the beach

[ In Reply To ..]
I am just 1 week shy of finishing my final semester of cancer registry school. The only thing I have left to do is the practicum, which I will do either this summer or in the fall, depending on what facility is willing to take me on for the free labor, which won't be so free considering they'll have to monitor all my work and watch me like a hawk.

There are only 6 accredited schools in the US for this. Because I have a bachelor's degree, I was hoping to be waived out of the general education requirements that are part of the curriculum. I wrote to AHIMA and they said nope. So then I wrote to Santa Barbara City College (because I live in California and thus am eligible for in-state tuition) and had an email conversation with the academic counselor. Long story shorter, I had all my transcripts sent to her, even the ones that are 40 years old, and she waived me out of 3 required classes; (1) "Computers 101" (I took it at the university in 1999, and I could TEACH it), (2) Management 101 (I took upper-division management courses at the university, 1999 and 2000) and (3) medical terminology (my about-to-expire CMT credential FINALLY made itself useful!).

In my entire post high school academic career up until now I got exactly two B's (both in literature, in 1974). I was otherwise a straight A student. Until now. This has been some of the most difficult coursework EVER. Other than the 3 courses I was waived out of, the list of required courses is as follows:

Cancer Registry Management I
Cancer Registry Management II
Human Form and Function
Basic Pathophysiology
Introduction to HIM
Quality HC Management
Cancer Disease Management
Abstracting Principles & Practices I
Abstracting Principles & Practices II
Cancer Statistics & Epidemiology
Oncology Coding and Staging Systems
Practicum

I'm all done except final exams in the last 3 classes besides the practicum, and I'm TIRED. Right now, if I never have to code and stage another cancer case as long as I live it will be too soon. Hopefully I'll feel a little better about it once I get into the practicum....! As an MT since 1972, I thought I was extremely detail-oriented, but I've discovered there are levels beyond levels of detail orientation in cancer registry.

When I'm done, I will have a cancer registry certificate. I could, I suppose, pull in all my old general ed credits and go for the associate's degree, but unless somebody can show me a compelling reason to do so, I won't bother, because I already have a bachelor's degree.

There has actually been a part-time cancer registry job open at our local hospital for over a year now. I might just apply for it once I'm done with my practicum; between that and the small local transcription accounts I still do, it should be a living or sorts. Other than that, there are online cancer registry jobs, or so I hear. My instructor is willing to help with job searches.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to respond to this post via email, and I'll do my best to answer them.

I recommend applying for that job right now. - Considering how long ...

[ In Reply To ..]
Congrats on being almost finished. I strongly recommend you apply for that job right now. It has been open a while, so they might take a close look at you. Perhaps you could do your practicum there, at least.

Good luck. Don't wait to make contact with them.

I would, but there are issues.... s/m - Still Cranky, still on the beach

[ In Reply To ..]
First off, they want a CTR, or at the very least, CTR-eligible. As best I can tell, CTR eligibility only comes after so many years of work experience. Which leads us to the classic catch 22: Most places only want to hire people with experience, but nobody is willing to give somebody that experience. And I don't know what they've been smoking, thinking that a CTR is going to come to our extremely-high-cost-of-living part of the country and work only 16 hours a week. I guess they're hoping for a CTR who is already independently wealthy, or one who is married to someone very well off. In other words, someone who doesn't HAVE to work. Good luck....

Secondly... the registrar has already refused to do a practicum. She claims they are understaffed and overworked, thus don't have the time to train someone and watch them like a hawk. She also says her boss has said no. It's only a 2-person department.

(Interestingly... I spent almost 28 years as a biller and MT in the office of one of the local oncologists. I saw him a few months ago and he asked how my studies were going. I said I was nearly done; just the rest of this semester, and then a practicum, but C____ is not willing to host a practicum, so my instructor is trying to twist arms at other hospitals in the region to get someone to take me on. My old boss, being only familiar with my skill sets as they stood 7 years ago, said to me, "You know more than C____ will ever know, and if she's in charge of [local hospital] you should be in charge of the entire state!" Yowza. That was reassuring and scary at the same time--as in, if I'm smarter and more skilled than the CTR at the hospital, that's a little scary, but also if I'm smarter than her, and she passed the exam, maybe it's not going to be as difficult as I was thinking it would be.)

So that's where we stand. Right now, as soon as finals are over, I'm about to leave for a 2-week sojourn away from home, but after I get back, my instructor and I will be chatting about that pesky practicum. I might ask her to call C____ and put it to her that if she will relent and take me on (and my old boss is likely willing to apply pressure with the higher-ups to get it approved) and if they are satisfied with my work (and, more importantly, they have not driven ME to run screaming from the building!) I would be willing to take that job that's been sitting open since February of last year, and they'll already have me trained. But I'm still thinking about whether or not I actually want to work at that place.... It's known in the local medical community as "the evil empire," but hey, if I survived working for Nuance, I can survive working anywhere! :D

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