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Records abstractor jobs - why do they want a nurse? - downtime

Posted: Sep 06, 2012

And other types of medical records jobs as well. Explain to me what makes a nurse qualified to do these jobs?

They probably want those who think and interpret data a certain way, and - Des

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have proven they can do so by their degree, e.g. RN, LVN, RHIT, etc.

Remember, MTs are "just typists" and "not real medical professionals." Unfortunately, though, there are a lot of bad MTs out there who don't care about the quality of their reports, and also unfortunately, these are the only MTs clients remember. If we do our jobs right, they don't think about us at all.

I just realized I was posting on the Coding/Medical Billing board. I suppose my response would' - Des

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appropriate on one of the MT boards.

My appologies.

right, we have to get an RHIT or CCS - downtime

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and they just have to be nurses? I wouldn't presume to do their jobs.

I do appologize. My response really didn't answer your question at all. - Des

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nm

Because they don't know any better... - sm

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Lots of hospitals labor under the delusion that nurses are smart, logical people who can look through data and turn it into information. Sometimes you can get past that prejudice but it's not easy.

RNs - anon

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There are some RNs who have specialized in utilization review and taken additional courses, and I "think" these are the nurses they want, not an RN without any experience like this or additional training. By the way, I am an RN and I am taking coding classes, hoping to get such a job. My experience and knowledge as an RN helps, but I certainly could NOT do it if not taking the additional courses!

I think so, too - RHIA

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These sound like utilization or quality review type positions. They are almost always a nursing function.

They are not the type of reviews or record abstracting done in HIM. Health information management utilizes its own credentialed people for jobs within our area of influence. We do not bring in alternatively qualified persons from outside, like nurses. We do not need to. We have highly qualified individuals within our own ranks.

The job is probably - along the lines

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of a documentation improvement specialist. The nurses have the clinical knowledge to see when a doctor is not documenting correctly when all the clinical indicators are there for a specific disease/diagnosis. They can speak their language and ask them to please identify the diagnosis in writing.

I'm not touching that nm - downtime

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nm

Gonna touch it - Wondering who you are!

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My organization, which is huge, does not hire nurses for CDI jobs. We use certified inpatient coders because a coder's educational background enables them to do exactly the same thing AND put it together with coding, facility statistics, and billing needs.

It is the most laughable myth that nurses have some kind of improved ability to identify clinical indicators or speak doctors' language. We find that doctors do not particularly respect them, either, making thngs worse.

The truth is that any intelligent person can learn to do CDI. Nurses have no more of an edge than anyone else and just as many nurses are dumber than rocks as in any other career field.

Just who dooes the CDI in an organization depends on who ot there first . . . HIMS or nursing. Nothing more. Nursing often prevails because they need light duty jobs for nurses with back injuries from lifting patients.

What about a nurse who has transitioned to coding and now has a CCS - and an Andrews coding education

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Wouldn't an intelligent, not-dumber-than-a-rock RN who is highly motivated, got a solid coding education with Andrews, then her CPC and CCS at graduation, wouldn't that make her a good applicant?

I realize experience is going to have to happen first before the higher-level coding jobs, but I think that RN and experience in the healthcare field is going to be an advantage. It seems to me that it would be almost dual-training. Am I wrong?

no of course you are not wrong - downtime

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We're just saying that an MT (for example) with the same training could do as well as an RN at that same job.

Understood. - nm

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nm

Same Here for CDI - DataAbstractor

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At my facility CDIs are also usually experienced coders. Data abstractors and coders are apples and oranges around here. That is something we all have to keep in mind though, even with the same job title the job is often very different from facility to facility. Here, the salary range from a non-clinical abstractor to CDI is a pretty big difference. From advertised pay rates, it is more than a $10 per hour difference. I would love to do CDI work one day. I've loved DA work but the fact I do the same work and get paid 1/4 of a nurse doing the same job is really bothersome. Now at another hospital near me the CDI jobs are advertised starting around $14 an hour and they don't want coding experience but just nonspecific HIM experience. There is really a lot of variation out there.

You are seeing different jobs with differing duties - I think

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Lots of jobs are called data abstractor, but they aren' the same. The HIMS jobs at lower pay are technically far less complicated, even though the title seems to be the same.

nm - nm

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nm

Nothing Like a CDI.... - DataAbstractor

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The jobs are not even similar. If you would say a coder and an MT are along the same lines then I suppose you could say the same for this.

An abstractor is doing just that, abstracting. The level of what the abstractor is working on will vary. A nurse doing abstraction is often paid like a research nurse (quite well) but a non-clinical person doing it is usually more than a CNA but a heck of a lot less than an RN.

A CDI is looking for errors and doing quality assurance work. In data abstraction we're working with specific guidelines to abstract very specific data. Asking a doctor to make a correction is not within the scope of my job. I know this sounds really easy but in reality it actually isn't. Usually there are guidelines that make your brain want to explode that you have to work within. A doctor can call the condition whatever he wants to but if it doesn't meet my criteria then it doesn't get abstracted for that diagnosis. Patient meets criteria for X but the sun rose at 5:33 instead of 5:34 today so it doesn't meet the criteria. I spend my day evaluating lab values, surgery outcomes, and criteria for special diagnoses like BPD and hypoxic injuries. I have learned more about base deficits in the last year than I ever wanted to know. I learned more about mucous fistula refeeds today than I wanted to learn in a lifetime. Ew! I consider myself extremely intelligent but this work requires constant learning for me. What I am doing, as are all of the abstractors I work with, goes way beyond speaking the language. Again, a very good MT who is educated beyond MT school could do well with this work. I am not getting rich doing it but I have learned so much and have had an experience I consider myself lucky to have had. I have seriously thought of returning for another degree and this time getting an RN just so I can continue this work but actually make money doing it.

Thank you, - DataAbstractor

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I actually didn't know what the job was. What is the Data abstracted used for?

Not All Do... - DataAbstractor

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I work as a data abstractor and if it were not for my clinical background prior to MT I would be lost. It is very challenging work even with a good knowledge base in clinical medicine. I am actually the only non-nurse abstractor on the project I work with in 40+ participating hospitals. I worked as an MT for 2 years prior to this position and am also a coder. On the topic of coding, it may not be relevant to abstracting depending on what you're abstracting. My work has nothing to do with coding and my coding education does not benefit me on the job.

If as an MT you're familiar with (just as an example) things like how to calculate an oxygenation index and you understand how to interpret vent settings (not just verify they are real words) and you understand the difference in pH from a vein versus an artery and why that is significant (you get the idea) then you might be able to do well as an abstractor. I have to tell you though that there is as much variation in the abstracting world as there is in MT. I am on an extremely complicated project that I honestly think a nurse would be better suited for. Some of the nurses struggle with the same work because it is very complex. I have had a lot of success with it; however, the truth of the matter is that I am not paid like a nurse but am doing the same work as research nurses doing clinical abstraction and making 80K. I love what I do but the salary issue is frustrating. I have just completed coding school and am looking for work as a coder because it will be a substantial raise.

No one in the clinical data abstraction world is going to know what Andrews is or care. I was at an abstractor meeting a few months ago for the project I work with and was literally laughed at when I mentioned I had been an MT. I was so humiliated. They'll care what your bachelor's is in and where you earned it though.

There is very good reason they want nurses but there are abstractor jobs out there for very good MTs that have an above-average grasp of clinical medicine. You'll need to understand it, not just know how to confirm the terminology. It can certainly be done! Again though, I would advise coding over abstraction.

Abstractor work is fun and challenging but as a non-nurse abstractor you will make more money as a coder.

Because it is Clinical - DataAbstractor

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From reading this again I think that you're not understanding what a data abstractor does or maybe you've seen an ad for an abstractor doing very basic work or maybe I am just looking at DA from the clinical research perspective. I do not work in medical records. I work on a unit. I go to meetings with the clinicians. I go to the bedside for information at times. All of the abstractors in 40+ hospitals on this particular project work on the unit (I am the only one that isn't a nurse). A nurse is qualified because they have clinical experience. I also have certificates in MT and coding and have a clinical background in my first round in undergrad and will be finishing a BS in Health Informatics next year. I feel fairly qualified to tell you that the work I do as a DA has little to do with my HIM education. There is a lot of variation in DA work though and this has just been my experience. I don't think we'll be changing the trend to hire nurses for DA positions any time soon.

Health Informatics - coding student

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I'd like to know where you are finishing a BS in HI or even some programs you have respect for? Are you please with your program? This is a degree I'd like to add sometime in the future (I'm a coding student at present, who already has coding experience and a Bachelor's degree). What do you think of WGU? Thanks! :)

Not that poster, but lots of info below - to help you

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There are posts below that explain about programs at WGU and the University of Toledo. With a degree, UT's postbaccalaureate certificate would be a good choice. You can complete it in about a year to qualify for the RHIA. Otherwise, WGU's program is excellent. They are well-suited for self-directed, independent learnrs who are motivated to make rapid progress. Their pass rate on the RHIA is 100%, which is almost unheard of. As a bonus, the program is in informatics and you graduate with computer certifications and the CCA, all of which puts you on the cutting edge in HIM.

Thank you for the great reponse! - coding student

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I really appreciate your taking the time to post your reply. Thank you!

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