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I want to take coding classes ... - Tired of Sitting

Posted: Jun 26, 2012

I want to take coding classes, but the school that everybody says is the best is an online course. I am an MT, working full time and then some. The last thing I want to do is sit in front of the computer any more than I already do. Why can't these classes be offered in a regular class setting? I've never liked the idea of online school as long as I'm working on line. Just too much sitting and staring at the screen.

I don't think I'm alone in this ... so how do you guys do it? Any suggestions on how to pull it off if I have to go to school online? I need to get out of MT soon. It's a lost cause.

It's not just all online - Student

[ In Reply To ..]
As a current student from an online course, the course I am in have college quality text books and the only thing done online is the message board and some information from the instructors, etc. and submitting your tests. The rest of it is all in the text books, not much different than you would be doing in a regular school setting, other than lectures and submitting your tests. Good luck in whatever you decide. :)

What school are you talking about??? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Andrews? They have a website, but that does not mean their course is "online" in the sense that you have to do it screen by screen. They use textbooks. To my knowledge, they do not use any online software teaching. It is very much like a traditional class but without the oring lectures and sitting in a classroom chair. You have instructors who interact with you as much as you need.

Career Step is online screens. AHIMA's online program is screen by screen. Neither have instructor support. Most college programs are now that way, as well, and have limited to no instructor support.

I never want to take an in-person class ever again. I do not want to drive to a school, sit in a room, do freakng busywork, listen to dysfunctional students who monopolize attention , participate in group assignments, or fight through registration, try to guess what books to buy, be at the mercy of the overpriced and out-of-everything bookstore, put up with instructors who got hired because they were the only unemployed coders in town willing to take the job, or any of those other miserable in-person things.

You don't have any of that with Andrews. If you are mature, self-directed, read well, and like real books, they're great.

Thank you ... - Tired of Sitting

[ In Reply To ..]
Yes, I was referring to Andrews. I had no idea it was set up like that. Thanks for the encouragement. I thought it was all internet based, and since I have never done that, I just assumed I'd have to sit here the whole time.

Wondering why Andrews isn't AHIMA approved? - teadrinker

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Anybody know why? Just curious.

Not for any bad reasons - see msg

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It is because Andrews does not participate in the federally guaranteed student loan program.

It is not because of any course content problems. In fact, Andrews includes more actual coding instruction than most, if not all, approved programs. They teach enough for students to pass both the CPC and CCS on graduation. If they became approved, they would have to reduce that CCS to the CCA to keep AHIMA happy.

Approval is no guarantee of quality. Sometimes it is a guarantee of large donations. A gold level donor forks over something like 59 to 99K a year.

Neither is Career Step, but they are AHIMA approved - teadrinker

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't believe Career Step participates in federally guaranteed programs either. Am I mistaken?

Career Step - On site MT

[ In Reply To ..]
You are not mistaken. Unless it has changed in the last year or 2, there are no student loans available at Career Step, I paid for my course in monthly installments because there were no loans available. The AAPC program is also AHIMA approved, they also have no federally guaranteed loans.

The AAPC Program is NOT AHIMA Approved - Where did you get that?

[ In Reply To ..]
I just reviewed the entire list of AHIMA-approved programs. AAPC is not on it.

If you go to a college that offers the Career Step Curriculum you can get student loans SM - Everettgraduate

[ In Reply To ..]
Everett Community College out of Everett Washington offers both Career Step for transcription, as well as Career Step for coding. If you are looking for Pell grants and student loans and are interested in Career Step for your coding education, then this would be your best bet. However, I went to Everett for medical transcription and it was a great experience. If the coding program is anything like the transcription, then you will have awesome teachers. I chose to go through Andrews for my coding education, as I am Native American and my tribe help me pay for my tuition.

Good luck!

Question - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Does the Career Step program actually prepare its graduates to pass the CCS? I am looking at Section 30 with UE and, unfortunately, Andrews is not approved for retraining. Any input about Career Step would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

The school website says the CCA - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
The school says the CCA and that you will need an additional 2 years of working experience in order to qualify for the CCS. No mention of the CPC.

The program cost was 4791 in 2009 for students living in Washington State. Nonresident tuition is higher. Expenses for books would be additional.

It is a 3-semester program requiring 35 to 40 hours of study per week. The course teaches coding in 1 semester for diagnosis coding and 1 semester for procedure (CPT) coding. There is also a coding practicum. If inpatient coding is addressed as part of this, it is mixed with outpatient.

The program is not listed on the AHIMA website as an approved coding program. The school does not teach an AHIMA accredited HIM program. There is therefore no guarantee that any part of this course would be transferrable later to a health information tech or admin degree at another school.

Credits will transfer SM - may not be ahimaapproved but

[ In Reply To ..]
The course may not be AHIMA approved, but I do know the credits you gain will transfer to another college, because I transferred some of them to North Dakota College of Science when I enrolled in their HIT program. You might even check with North Dakota College of Science and look at their programs, because I know for a fact they are accredited with the CHAIMA. I didn't finish because my husband started graduate school and I needed to be available for our kids, but I would like to finish the program.

Suggestion for you, sm - Better option

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If you are being funded by UE and need an accredited program like you describe, there is a much better option for you.

The bachelor's degree in health informatics program at Western Governors University is AHIMA-acredited and will qualify you for the RHIA exam. Their graduates have a 100% pass rate on it. You would be immediately eligible for ANY job in HIM, including very good ones. The program covers the same coding that certificate courses have, so if you wanted to code you could. It would even enhance your ability to get a job at home because some consulting companies prefer RHIAs for that.

Students at WGU are not forced into semesters. They are able to complete as much work as they can as fast as they can. You can complete a bachelor's in about 2-1/2 years instead of the usual 4 or more.

Since most college coding programs take about 18 months, and only give you about half of a 2-year degree, it would make sense for you to go straight for the most desirable degree, the RHIA in informatics at WGU.

I think that if you are unemployed, you might be able to do it even faster than average. You are smart and motivated.

Do not let the term "informatics" scare you. It is just electronic records.

Better option - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you! I will definitely look into WGU. I agree, why not go straight for the RHIA. I have an Associate's Degree in Medical Records Technology, which included coding, but I graduated MANY years ago!

Thanks again for your suggestion. I can't wait to check out my options further!

P.S. I won't let the term informatics scare me! :)

Definitely go for the RHIA! - RHIA

[ In Reply To ..]
I think WGU may give you transfer credit for the HIT work you already did. If not, since their courses are competency-based and you work at your own speed, you would remember that material quickly and zoom thrugh it. I think you might be looking at a lot less time than you expect, possibly even less than a coding program.

Look over their website and get an enrollment counselor to call you. Their job is not to sell you on the program, like at a diploma mill, but to shepherd you through the enrollment process so that you can get enrolled without delay. Their efforts are typical of the superb student support they provide. You can begin any month you like once your enrollment is complete.

You are not mistaken - MT4now

[ In Reply To ..]
I think also our other poster that had stated that Andrews is not an AHIMA-approved school is a little mistaken in the reasoning behind it. If you go here at the AHIMA site: http://www.ahima.org/downloads/pdfs/certification/Prior%20Approval%20Application.pdf -
it gives you the parameters for obtaining approval from AHIMA if you are a program wishing to seek approval. Further more - if you look here: http://www.hicareers.com/Toolbox/recognition.aspx -
it talks about 'accreditation' which does need to have Eligibility for Federal Financial Aid; however, this is for CAHIM acceditation for 'HIM' certification - this does not pertain to the coding program approval - or coding certification.

I have yet to find anything that states that for a coding program to be approved, they have to have Eligibility for Federal Financial Aid, which would explain why Career Step can be approved. It appears to me that the basis for approval would be based on the curriculum used as well as other factors, but this seems to be the main factor.
Good find and good point teadrinker.

I think this is also a very good source of information for those trying to sort out all of this information and trying to decide what to do as far as education:
http://www.medicalcodingresources.com/EDUCATION.html

Hope this information helps to clear up some of this confusion for some! Godspeed to you all!

The important thing to me is can you pass the CCS exam after taking the course - Nothing Else Matters To Me

[ In Reply To ..]
The thing that is critical to me is whether the course prepares a student to pass the CCS exam. Andrews is designed to do that. Good luck to everyone making their decisions.

Nothing Else Matters - Wow - Coeralso

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Other courses are also designed to prepare you for the CCS exam - not just Andrews contrary to popular belief on this board. No program guarantees you will get those credentials nor does any program mean you WILL NOT get those credentials. To say nothing else matters is rather silly and begs to question what the motive is on this board, and who is truly posting these comments. Almost seems as a marketing strategy to which I would say: Buyers beware when you see things like this going on. Many good points have been raised - teadrinker has certainly raised a good point of debate here. Another poster on here at one point had stated that a hospital local to them would not hire an individual even with credentials that was not backed by an AHIMA approved program/school, and it is the same in the area I work in. They actually do look at where you got your education. It is wise for a program to try to prove they have a good curriculum with an organization like AHIMA as some/many hospitals/clinics do believe in their curriculum and actually use much of their curriculum themselves for continuing education for their existing employees. So it would be no wonder they would like to stick to those quidelines for future hirees. I am not for or against any program / school; everyone does what fits best for them. However, to say nothing else matters, that is kind of hard to believe. For those just coming into this field, my advice is do your research and look before you leap. Spend your money wisely and really be sure to think of down the road, in the future, do you think maybe you would like to gain further credentials. If you choose something like a 1+1 progression program (details on AHIMA board) then you can get your coding cert. and later you can enroll in the HIT associdate degree program if you so choose and your coding cert. courses transfer. You seem to get a little more for your money this way. If you go with a program not approved, then the courses do not transfer. Just some food for thought.

But ... - CCS, CCS-P, CPC

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Yes other schools prepare you for the CCS, but not ALL do and many do not do a good job of it.

A program that teaches only outatient coding like those from the AAPC will not help much with the CCS. Some college programs only teach outpatient coding, as well. Sure, with several years of job experience in inpatient coding, you might pass the CCS, but that is not what we are talking about here.

Most other college programs prepare you for coding, but to the level of the CCA, not the CCS. Sure, with their recommended 3 years of job experience doing inpatient coding, you might pass the CCS, but that is not what we are talking about here.

We are talking about programs that teach enough to enable a graduate to pass the CCS exam, not the CCA, and to do it with NO work experience. Most programs do not do that. Andrews actually does. Not every graduate will pass the CCS, I am sure, but they teach enough to enable bright and motivated students to do so.

Some employers do support their own organization, whether it is AHIMA or the AAPC. It goes both ways. You seem to be missing an important point, though. Most AHIMA-supporters will accept a CCS-credentialed applicant because the CCS is an AHIMA credential. They ARE supporting their organization in hiring the holder of a CCS. Regardless of what they SAY they will do, and every one of them will say "oh, absolutely, I would insist on an AHIMA graduate," most will not look much beyond the CCS. There are always exceptions, and there is a lot of old-school support in any field, but claiming that you have to attend an AHIMA college program in order to get a job is untrue. There are enormous numbers of non-AHIMA coders employed in hospital settings. There is also a huge shortage of credentialed coders, and also the well-known fact that most college-trained HIT grads do not EVER pass ANY credentialing exam, so when it comes down to the wire employers focus on the credentials first.

And what about the bit about employers using AHIMA continuing ed for their existing employees? Sure, they might -- or would in theory except that most do not because it is too expensive -- but we are not talking about continuing ed here. AHIMA continuing ed is great, but it is completely different from their own online coding program and from college programs. Both of those consist of individual courses using college-course textbooks. That is something any school can do. Before tooting the horn to announce that AHIMA has a better corner in that market, take a good look at Andrews' curriculum and ask some students what materials they used. They are virtually identical. The exception is that Andrews teaches more actual coding. About double, because they teach outpatient and inpatient completely separately.

Claiming that the courses do not transfer is msleading. Courses from some AHIMA-approved programs will not transfer because the approved program is not a college or is a for-profit diploma mill "college." Even accredited RHIT program courses might not transfer. Transferring credit is never guaranteed. Every time you start at one school intending to transfer, you risk losing time and money. Even if the new school accepts the HIM courses, they often accept nothing else. Many students go from coding certificate programs into RHIT programs finding that they must do another year and a half. RHIT students go into RHIA programs finding they have to do another 3 years.

Something else to consider is that many colleges will allow students to test out of coding and other courses. Several Andrews students have done that. Others have gotten credit using their CCS cedential and Andrews transcript. Once the college saw that the course was the same they had no problem.

Every prospective student needs to make an intelligent decision on this. If you do plan to go for the RHIT, I would advise against it because right now it is a lot more economical and more efficient in terms of time to go straight for the RHIA in informatics at Western Governors University. Many students can do it in less than 3 years and so far the pass rate on the RHIA is 100%. Current coders will not have lost any money because WGU is competency-based and fees are based on time. You can complete as much material as possible in that time. You can simply test out of the material you have already learned or blow through it faster, shortening your time in the progam. Not just coding itself, but med terms, pathophysiology, pharmacology, A&P, and medical record content.

There is a huge advantage in being an RHIA, in informatics or otherwise, with solid coding knowledge, so keep that in mind. Former Andrews students might want to take a serious look at WGU. They teach much like Andrews does, so if you did well with that you will do well with them.

Nothing else matters - On site MT

[ In Reply To ..]
I want to thank you for pointing out what I have suspected for a long time, that a great deal of the comments on this board are a marketing strategy for the Andrews school, and no doubt they've recruited a number of students for their coding program from this forum. I've pointed it out before and of course didn't know what I was talking about. You give good advice to everyone: Do your research and do what is best for you. There is more to coding than meets the eye and it isn't the dream job certain people would like you to think it is, it certainly is not a good fit for everyone. That does not mean they are less intelligent or lacking in some way, as we've also been led to believe here. Anyway, thanks again for your intelligent post and to all others with the courage to challenge some of the things that are being said here.

There are no dream jobs and no perfect career for everyone - see message

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I'm not sure why someone who dislikes coding would spend much time hanging out on a coding forum, unless they just want to make others as discouraged as they are about coding.

Personally, I don't think everyone in the world should become a coder. I just wish I had discovered it years earlier than I did. You can attack all you want. You can say that I'm not intelligent and have no courage because I don't agree with you, but truth is truth.

The truth is, don't spend time on a career that you don't like, but please allow others to enjoy it if it works for them.

Clearing up the confusion??? - An actual coder

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. . . more like adding to the confusion!

The first link you provided, which you claim is the requireents for coding programs, is nothing of the sort. It is an application for prior approval for continuing education events. CEUs in other words. It is the application a vendor fills out to get a webiar or seminar preapproved for CEUs. That has absolutely nothing . . . NADA . . . to do with coding schools.

You will not find the approval requirements online because the program has been suspended pending restructuring. Prior to suspension, the program requirements changed several times.

If you cannot provide evidence to refute what someone says, you have no business calling them a liar. That is what you are doing here.

You are also NOT a coder, but you continue to pass yourself off as one. You make authoritative statements about requirements and quality when you have no idea what you are talking about.

While I suspect that you might not have actually spoken to very many coding managers, if you did you only spoke to a small corner of the market. T is no surprise that they would tell you that they only hire AHIMA because they are expected to say that. I can tell you that in nearly all cases they WILL hire a CCS without batting an eye over it.

You seem to misread and misinterpret what you read on a consistent basis. In several posts, you accuse others of saying things they never said and you cannot tell a CEU application from an accreditation package. You seem to have poor attention to detail. I have to wonder if that was part of your reason for dropping out of coding. I would not encourage anyone to listen to your advice.

Pot calling the Kettle Black ~ - Coderalso

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I find it very sad that those coming into this field, or are in this field, have to endur this type of attitude from a person who calls themselves a coder. Your attitude does not represent this field very well at all. I think that your choice to ignore the other 2 reference pieces in that other person's post was an attempt to draw attention away from some other very good points.
To say that a person has only spoken to a small corner of the market, that would be true in all cases. It would only make sense for a future coding student to check in their own personal area to find out what they are looking for as far as qualifications and preferences go. Logically thinking, what good would it do to check out what type of qualifications hospitals in California are looking for if you in fact live in New York and plan on getting a job in New York. Most everyone does encompass their own area when checking with their hiring managers in an area.
I happen to work for a large hospital chain as a coder, I have my CCS, and I didn't get that by going to Andrews, hard to believe isn't it. I can tell you that in fact resumes that are sent to human resources that do not have education by an AHIMA approved school, don't even make it to the actual hiring manager. They are screened out. I have talked to the hiring manager about this personally. Most facilities are inundated by resumes. They have to set a criteria as to get through them all. Our criteria is to choose the resumes from candidates that have schooling from an approved AHIMA course along with those coding credentials. You may not like to hear that but if they had 10 resumes and all 10 had CCS credentials and only 5 of those resumes went to an AHIMA approved school - those 5 who took those AHIMA approved courses would go to the top of the list. The other 5 would most likely not even make it unless none of the first 5 made it through the interview. We have never, to date, had a situation where we have not had candidates WITHOUT education from an approved AHIMA or a school approved by AHIMA. In fact, many of them DO choose AHIMA approved schools. This is a system-wide criteria for our hospitals/clinics so it DOES matter where you get your education like it or not. There are a lot of on-line coding programs. For hiring managers to sit and sift through and try to decide which are good and which are not, they are not going to take the time to do it. They have let AHIMA do that for them already. Seems it would only make sense for a school to try to get that approval, unless they just simply don't fit the criteria and are not able to get the approval.

So you see it does make sense to check within each individual's area to see what your area looks for and go from there, even if someone does think your area is a small corner of the market.

I believe what the other poster above was trying to refer to was the AHIMA Coding Education Program Approval Manual. Yes it is under construction right now, however, this is the criteria they used for approval up to now:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/18fI-8dszCv7Ni_RORew5gkBBfZm6m3l02nhL6x1BELDycj98bh1MoNsEiBch/edit

Since you were so compelled to discredit someone, maybe you should have provided the correct information. Or was that not the true intentions of your post, really, to give useful information. It really was just to try to discredit someone, wasn't it. Hard to understand why someone would be so nasty and rude about a simple mistake and just like the annoyed poster because someone said AAPC was approved by AHIMA. Would seem that any post that is not Pro-Andrews gets a rude comment. If that is what they are teaching you over there, that is not a good thing. I think another below referred to it as a lynch mob...Gosh...terrible.

For the poster who was accused of 'having poor attention to detail and it is no wonder you dropped out', I think you made a wise decision to get out if this is how you were treated there. If you have not already decided on another school, take your hiring manager's advice and do an approved program. You will be glad you did for many reasons. And don't worry, not all coders are like the last poster or like the redpen they refer to below, most are very willing and cordial about helping a new student coming into the field. Every now and again you will run into a bad egg, but just shrug them off. They for sure do not represent the majority of the field.

Your message lacks credibility - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
There are giant holes in your logic. The biggest one is your refusal to acknowledge that when a person has their CCS, they have proven skills and abilities. They have skills that others, even people with years of (sometimes limited areas of) experience, don't have. They have taken and passed a difficult credentials exam. They are hired on their credentials, unless an employer has a bias or discriminates against them. If you were hiring, for example, anyone who didn't fit your "mold" would just be thrown in the trash, regardless of their skills and abilities. I think you have demonstrated the lynch mob mentality mentioned earlier.

The credentials of CCS are extremely important in the coding industry. ANY school that can prepare a student to take and pass that test right out of school is doing an excellent job. I hope we hear from more schools that are doing exactly that, and let's hope people don't hate them because of their success. That's just so wrong and mean-spirited.

Any professional, fair-minded coding manager has to be pretty darned impressed with someone who has that CCS, unless it threatens them.

Thanks.. - MT4now

[ In Reply To ..]
Thanks for the advice Coderalso - and also for providing a correct link for the "Approval process." I am for sure going for the Approved coding courses - debating on exactly which one right now but I am close to making a decision. Your facilities hiring process seems to be very much like my area. At any rate, I do thank you for your wise advice and have decided to do just that 'shrug off' the rudeness. Please keep posting, as I think this board needs a good balance of other's opinions, rather than just a cheerleading squad for 1 program.

Not sure I understand - Wondering

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Why would you feel you need to take another course?

According to your various posts, you either claim you finished but chose to stay in MT realizing you did not like coding, or you (now) claim you nearly finished but did not because of your priciples in some dispute with an instructor.

Either way, I am not sure why you do not just try the CPC exam to see if you will pass. Even if you only got to the end of CPT coding, you should be able to pass the CPC exam. That is the same material that AAPC courses teach as exam prep, after all. For that matter, it is the same as some AHIMA-approved programs teach.

Wouldn't it make more sense to see if you can pass the test than to shell out money for another course that covers the same thing?

There is no monetary risk involved. If you did fail it the first time, you get another chance to pass. It is good for a year, so you could take another course during that time.

I guess what I am thinking is that it would be a little silly to do an entire coding course over without even seeing if you can pass the exam and get a job. People who have never taken a course can do it after studying on their own and you have completed more of a course than that.

I think your mistaken - MT4now

[ In Reply To ..]
Hmmmm... not sure if you are looking at the right posts as I never said any of what you are telling me I did - are you sure you are directing this question to the right person?

You wrote ~According to your various posts, you either claim you finished but chose to stay in MT realizing you did not like coding, or you (now) claim you nearly finished but did not because of your priciples in some dispute with an instructor.

I never said 'I chose to say in MT realizing I did not like coding' nor did I ever claim I nearly finished any program? Could you find where I said that and show me?

You wrote ~Even if you only got to the end of CPT coding, you should be able to pass the CPC exam.

Again - wondering where I claimed to have gotten to the end of CPT coding? Can you also find that statement for me in my past posts.

You wrote ~ People who have never taken a course can do it after studying on their own and you have completed more of a course than that.

Again - could you show me where I said this?

Rather strange you would write that i said all of these things as people can obviously look back through my posts and see I have never said any of that?? Just doesn't make much sense.

Then how far did you get before you dropped out? - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Maybe someone else uses that name?

Regardless, the point isn't whether you said that but that you were a student who dropped out at some point. That is clear from the posts above, unless you claim not to have written them.

I guess it seems that you had been in the program a while because you mentioned losing the tuition money. If you had dropped early, you would have gotten a refund, but you did not mention a refund. It sounds as though you lost all of it. That would indicate that you had been there long enough to nearly finish. Certainly to have gotten through CPT coding.

How far did you get? You may be able to salvage your efforts. I know a lot of coders who would agree that you should attempt the CPC and see what happens.

She didn't say whether she dropped or failed - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
She didn't say whether she dropped or failed, and I don't think she should admit failing if she did. That's none of our business.

If she failed though, and I'm not saying that she should admit it on here, because I wouldn't, then taking the test wouldn't be a good idea. If she passed, but didn't enjoy it, why would she want to bother testing? I wouldn't encourage her to take the test because she may not be ready for it but may just not want to tell us that, which is her right.

She said she did not "finish." - Read below around June 6

[ In Reply To ..]
Look at that thread that began on June 6. She said she did not "finish."

That could mean anything from quit after the 1st week to 'failed' or 'incomplete' - Nobody knows

[ In Reply To ..]
People enroll in classes every day and drop out before their first assignment or soon after. Didn't 'finish' could mean anything. It could be she was failing the course from the beginning and knew it wasn't for her. It could even mean that she wasn't paying her tuition and got kicked out. Nobody will ever know. If she is smart, she will allow us all to believe that she was making great grades, was a star student, and quit because she didn't like it. Whatever the reason, she's angry and does want us to know that. We get it.

Lots of theories - MT4now

[ In Reply To ..]
Well there are lots of theories as to if I 'quit, failed, left the program' - and it really is in my posts below and I did state that I chose not to finish with the Andrews program. It was not because I was failing or because I don't want to learn coding or because I don't like it. My reason for leaving the program was clear. As hard as it may be for some to believe, it truly was a matter of principal for me - I just can't bring myself to pay someone money to treat me rudely, nor do I personally have time for the games that were played. I truly needed to have a course that was structured a little more professionally. I did lose my money - how much?, well lets just say it was enough. With that being said, being a matter of principal, it wouldn't have mattered to me if it was a $1, $100, $1000, or $10,000 loss. The things that were allowed to go on with this course were just wrong, plain and simple. Other's have been treated like I was - I am STILL getting emails telling me of stories and again - they are all so similar to my experience. Really, it is amazing to me they have gotten away with it for so long. I do like to get the most for my money also, but to finish a course I don't believe in my heart is worthy of finishing, just couldn't do it.

In RE: to sm - I had to look to see if there was another MT4now and it appears there is one who posts on the MT board from the looks of the archives. That is not me, so I guess there is another. At any rate, I still cannot find any post where it states those things that you said I said, still kind of confused where you came up with those ideas. I guess that wasn't your point? I think you are now stating that your real point was that you feel I can salvage some of the education I did get from the Andrews program. I think you do make a good point, and I do appreciate your idea. I may consider doing that, if I decide to do the AHIMA course as obviously I could take just the clusters I need in order to gain more knowledge towards earning my CCS. The thing is, I am not sure that I want to just stop at a CPC, CCS. I am honestly leaning towards doing an approved course which credits could transfer towards going for an RHIT/RHIA degree as well, and in such case, I may have to do it over again as the courses that I did get through Andrews do not transfer. I have made some calls, and so far they have told me that those I took from the Andrews program would NOT transfer, even though the other poster said they would.

I presently have a good job, I don't need to get my CPC 'just to get a job', but if I did, that is definitely the route I would take. So your advice is good, and I thank you for that. I am taking my time this time in making my decision as I jumped in before talking to the right people the last time and only wished I had sought the advice of those doing this job in my area first. Thats okay - live and learn. Sometimes mistakes cost us money and when they do, we are a little more careful the next time around. I just hope I can save someone else the misfortune I had.

The last poster stated that I was angry and wanted everyone to know that. It was not my intentions to have everyone just read the posts and take from it that I am are angry. It would seem that a poster in particular took my posts very personal, and it would make one wonder why. They jumped on every single one of 'my' posts, and others good posters as well, trying to discredit and twist and turn every point and turn it into a personal attack against them ??, even accusing these posters of 'slander', being rude, mean-spirited, the list goes on. Seems very odd.

There are some of you who got my point. My point was and IS to do your homework thoroughly before you decide on a program. This board is heavily marketed, as many of you know, by the Andrews program. A program I personally did not have good luck with. It is never wise to make your decision based solely off of internet information you read. I would not tell anyone to make a decision based on my posts, or anyone elses for that matter. Go to the source - go to where you are thinking you are going to get a job and talk to them and ask the questions needed to make a good decision. If you are lucky and live in an area where there are multiple facilities that could possibly hire you - try to take the time to check with them all and make your decision based upon that.

When I pointed out what my hiring managers in my area had to say to me about the fact that they hire coders who have completed 'AHIMA approved programs' - basically I was told by a poster on this board they would never say that. Well they did. Not what these programs who cannot obtain AHIMA approval really want you to hear, is it. Apparently there are others who have heard the same thing - soooo I guess it does happen. If the facilities in your area do not base their hiring off of their candidates taking AHIMA approved courses, or give preference to those with that education, then great. Take whatever course you feel 'you' will get the most from, including Andrews if that is the type of course you like.

There was another poster who stated it was the same for the facility chain that he/she worked at, and he/she was attacked by this very same individual stating that 'the message lacked credibility" and 'the poster's refusal to acknowledge that when a person has their CCS, they have proven skills,' blah, blah, blah...". Well I read the post by coderalso and basically he/she said that "The facility he/she 'worked at' "has the same hiring practices that I was running into." Coderalso did NOT say that they personally didn't acknowledge credentials nor did he/she say that they did the hiring or anything of the sort, but only he/she was saying that this was the facilities general policy that they worked in as well. Yet this poster, turned this into another personal attack against them.

Anyone can read these posts and clearly see what this individual is doing. The posts are almost a joke and oh so obvious that they themselves feel threatened - threatened by another opinion on this board. Threatened that someone is giving the advice for everyone to check in their own personal areas to see what qualifications are TRULY looked at and really needed to obtain a job in their own personal areas. Something that couldn't possibly hurt anyone to do. However, they consistently try to discourage this from happening. This poster acused coderalso of "feeling threatened" yet they themselves are the ones who appear to feel threatened. Would almost seem as though they discourage individuals from doing their homework. Why? It think the reason is pretty clear. Because if you just so happen to be in an area like mine, or coderalso's area, you won't take their course. Seriously, a rather stupid marketing strategy to behave like this on a board for all to read and see.

No one is telling anyone on here NOT to take the Andrews program, or any other program for that matter, I think the point is to do your homework.

All myself and others are giving for advice is to check with UNBIASED people. We are not telling you TOO choose an AHIMA-approved school. I personally have made that decision solely based upon my research in talking with people from the facilities in "my little corner of the market." However, since this is where I plan on trying to get employed, I guess it would make just common sense wouldn't it - to take the advice from the person who could potentially be hiring me some time in the future.

So -
Q: Did I fail, or was I failing?: A: No - not at all.
Q: Did I quit the program - Yes - for the exact reason I have stated in all my other posts.

Do I think your idea was good about maybe going for the AAPC credential - maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea even if I am going to do schooling for other credentials as it certainly can't hurt. So I do thank you for that good piece of advice.

Soon after you read this, you will see the attack to discredit this post by noneother than........old die hard. It will be full of rambling to try to confuse you and make points that have absolutely nothing to do with anything anyone else said, and will all point to just that same old thing. I could almost write the post for them.

However any of you get to your ultimate goal of getting your education and the credentials you so desire, I do wish you the best of luck in your careers. It is hard work to get there, and a good career is well deserved to all who try.

Confused... how would reducing CCS to CCA keep AHIMA happy? - teadrinker

[ In Reply To ..]
So, are you saying Andrews would have to dumb-down their course so that students would only be able to pass the CCA and not the CCS, in order to "keep AHIMA happy?" That doesn't make sense. Can you explain?

Online programs and AHIMA - MTtoCoding

[ In Reply To ..]
Many online programs aren't AHIMA approved. In order to receive that federal funding a school has to be accredited. With distance learning programs, there is only one organization that does accreditations. It costs over $50K to get it and takes about four years. Many proprietary schools decide it's not worth it.

Good Question - MT4now

[ In Reply To ..]
I have questioned this in the past on this board as well and never really got any good answer to this question either.

I don't discredit anyone who works hard for any education wherever they get it. As I stated in my posts below - Andrews was not the program for me; however, there are others who like(d) it - approved or not.

What I can share with you is what I have personally found through the course of searching for a new coding program for myself, and in talking with hiring managers through our local hospitals / clinics here - they told me to go with an AHIMA approved program as that is what they personally look for on a resume along with a candidate's credentials. I have also looked on job boards and have seen for myself ads that state the credentials they desire and "graduates from a certifed coding program" or "graduates from an AHIMA certified program."

With that being said - there are just as many jobs ads that do not say/require that. However, for me, I have decided that if I am going to do this - why eliminate those job possibilities right off the top because I did not choose an 'approved' school. Again, I am not saying any one school is better than another - just giving you my decision based on my research.

While there are those, like the last poster, who do not care for organizations like AHIMA or AAPC - they are unfortunately a part of this profession, like it or not, and I feel by turning your back to them totally and failing to recognize them, one "could" be limiting themselves in this field.

I have decided to take the hospital hiring manager's advice and go with an approved program.

Good luck to you teadrinker for your future career. May we all make it to the top one day no matter how we get there. :)

Most of Andrews grads get their CPC and CCS though, so they are credentialed - The difference

[ In Reply To ..]
The difference is, if you have your CCS, you are looking for jobs as a CCS, not looking for a job as a new graduate. You're a credentialed professional coder. Nothing else matters unless you are competing with another credentialed coder with years of experience. In that case it depends on how many job openings there are. In any case, a credentialed coder beats a non-credentialed or poorly credentialed new graduate of any school.

Not in every case ~ - MT4now

[ In Reply To ..]
Well in my research with the local hospital/clinics here - it 'did' matter to them (no matter what your credentials were) what education was behind your credentials as I specifically asked the hiring managers I did talk with about a list of programs I had thought about doing (and one program I had already tried) and she said she would not hire me without an "approved program" behind the required credentials. I know this is not what you want to hear, obviously, but this is the fact of what I was told. So I do believe other factors definitely do matter "in SOME cases."

I understand this board is VERY pro-Andrews Program, but I think that everyone needs to keep an open mind. Those blowing the Andrews horn would like everyone on this board to believe that IF you don't do the Andrews program that you will not get your CCS - well I have to believe that there are plenty of coders out there that have not done the Andrews program that have earned their CCS and other credentials, respectfully. I happen to personally know some coders myself who have been very successful and they didn't do the Andrews program, just as I recognize there are plenty of successful Andrews grads. My point being - I am sure there are plenty of Andrews students who have earned their CCS - I know they worked hard for that. However, there are plenty of other students from other programs who have also respectfully earned their credentials. Lets recognize all individual credentialed coders (aspiring coding students) for their hard work and stop with this attitude if you don't go to Andrews school - you are now dubbed "poorly credentialled." This is the exact attitude that drove me out of that Program.

I do believe for some hiring managers - the education behind the credentials will matter - for others it will not. Obviously no one on this board was around to hear what the hiring manager said to me - so take it for what it is worth. Its okay - everyone will find their way one way or another - we all do no matter how we achieve our results we so desire. I would just say that along your journey - be sure to keep an open mind and always take all of these posts with a grain of salt and, as stated from the moderator, make your decision based on your "own" research, not what others are saying on these boards. The hiring managers here at the local clinics /hospitals were happy to talk to me about this. The head of medical records actually took the time to talk with me and offer me advice. Sometimes it is a good idea to go right to the source and see what they have to offer. They can truly be a wealth of good information that is not biased in any direction.

andrews uses many AHIMA boks - student

[ In Reply To ..]
Although Andrews is not an "approved school" they do use teach from many AHIMA textbooks. Having taken a pre-req class through AHIMA, I was totally turned off by not having anyone to turn to if I had questions. Andrews' instructors are available if you have questions, and they challenge you to learn from your mistakes. Of course, that will not change the fact that if your potential employer just insists on an approved program, then Andrews will not fit the bill. I have no regrets switching from learning from AHIMA to Andrews.

That's not what matters from what I'm seeing - Bottom Line Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
I know a gal who attended an 'approved' school and can't pass even the CPC. She wasted her time and money. If you can't pass a CCS exam, your chances of getting a job are dramatically limited. Employers want credentials. That's the bottom line.

Guess Every Program Produces Those Who Can't Pass - Coderalso

[ In Reply To ..]
I know those who have taken nonapproved programs as well, including the andrews prog., (the lynch mob should be coming, good post below) and they cannot pass even the CPC as well. I think it is safe to say that every program has those who can do it and those who just didn't grasp it for whatever reason. Every program has that undesireable result, not JUST AHIMA approved coding programs. I think there is a lot of wasted time and money out there unfortuantely from the sounds of it.

Hard to believe because Andrews will work with you - until you pass.

[ In Reply To ..]
Call me the lynch mob all you like, but what you said is not entirely accurate. If any Andrews graduate did not pass, it is their own darned fault. Andrews will work with you until you do.

AIHMA has a rule that a school has to provide federal financial aid - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Andrews doesn't participate in federal financial aid, which is required by AHIMA.

Andrews does work with WIA and Voc Rehab though - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Andrews does work with Workforce Investment Act (WIA) and Vocational Rehabilitation, just not Pell and Guaranteed Student Loans, the federal programs.

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