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Andrews vs Career Step sm - kelli

Posted: Apr 20, 2013

I am trying to decide between Andrews and Career Step for billing and coding. The only question I have left is how the learning is done. It looks like Career Step is study on your own. at your own pace. I can't find anything one way or the other on the Andrews site - are there interactive online classes or is it study on your own and then test? Also, Career Step says the tuition includes Complete set of industry codebooks (ICD-9-CM, CPT, HCPCS). Andrews just says books/equipment/materials. Does it include those, or will that be a separate purchase I have to make?

TIA for info. Those are the two things I need to learn in order to decide.

Answer - Comparison Shopper

[ In Reply To ..]
Andrews uses the highest-quality, industry-standard textbooks, the same that you would find at a university health information program. In fact, the same that you would use as on-the-job references. They use upgraded code books, as well. They are included in the tuition. Everything you need is included.

Andrews students study on their own using lesson plans. It is self-paced, but they care that you make progress. They have instructors who are actual experienced, working, multi-certified coders. Those instructors work closely with students. Andrews does not employ online course modules. Some tests are online, but everything else is submitted by email.

Career Step uses online teaching material, screens that you click through. You either print the screens or pay extra for copies of the course booklets. It is self-paced. To my knowledge, there are no instructors.

Coding course content differs somewhat. Schools DO NOT teach the same thing. Most of them prefer that you do not know that. There are 2 basic types of coding--inpatient and outpatient. The rules differ and the scope of what you code differs. There are 3 types of coding training programs. One teaches only outpatient (physician services) coding, like the AAPC courses. Another, like most college courses, teaches "coding" generically, not making much distinction between the two. One teaches outpatient and inpatient completely separately, and almost nobody does it that way.

Andrews teaches them separately, providing enough coverage to pass both the CPT and CCS exams without work experience, which is very good. AAPC type courses, including some colleges that teach that type, provide enough for the CPT exam. Other programs, like most colleges and some others, may provide enough to pass the CCA exam, which is not a full-competency credential like the CCS, and may or may not provide enough for the CPC. Students who have taken the "generic" type of course mentioned above seem to have the most trouble on the exams. I am not sure what CS teaches, but they mention the CCA on their website (or used to) and I have heard it is all-in-one. We don't see their grads here very often, if ever.

There is a lid for every pot. :-)

Thank you for the information sm - kelli

[ In Reply To ..]
CS and Andrews both look like they cover hospital and physician office n separate modules. Career Step seems a little more like they are trying to sell me something - but they have the "mark" of AHIMA. Although when I look at what AHIMA eligibility requirements are for CCS, it lists a prior credential or a course covering certain things, all of which Andrews lists as part of the curriculum. So it looks to me like they will both fill the bill for what I need education-wise (not experience, obviously) for the CCS exam?

Again, thanks for the info. I am just trying to make sure my interpretation of things is logical before I decide. I would rather get info from people who have experienced them than from the people trying to get my money, KWIM?

Hmm - Comparison Shopper

[ In Reply To ..]
AHIMA recently changed their course approval process. Only colleges will qualify, it seems. Schools that no longer qualify are being dropped as their approval expires. I suspect that CS will not be approved after their current approval expires.

The fact that a school is approved does not mean you will qualify for the CCS. Even AHIMA's own online "Coding Basics" course does not qualify, according to the exam eligibility updates Q&A on their website.

CS's website indicates that they prepare for the CCA, not the CCS or CCS-P.

Career Step - Anonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
I completed the Career Step program about a year ago. You are wrong that "almost nobody" teaches inpatient and outpatient coding separately; Career Step does. When I finished ICD-9 I began the outpatient (CPT/HCPCS) module. I purchased the entire program although you may be able to do it separately. There are no instructors per se as the course is self guided independent study. However, I had access to instructors via e-mail (they always responded in 12-24 hours), a toll free number and a very good student forum. I'm not working as a coder but I did pass the CPC exam on the first attempt, and I am working in Health Information Management. You are seeing a Career Step grad here; first hand information is always better than hearsay. I don't know anything about Andrews but I would not try to give you information which may not be entirely true.

Clarification - CCS, CPC

[ In Reply To ..]
You seem to be unclear about what constitutes training for inpatient versus outpatient coding.

Teaching CPT/HCPCS coding was NOT what the above post was talking about. All coding programs teach CPT/HCPCS. They can't not teach them because all coders use them.

It was referring to the separate teaching of inpatient and outpatient ICD-9-CM coding. Literally, they teach ICD-9 coding for physician services and then teach it again for inpatient services. Two completely different courses. Two completely different books.

The problem with most ICD-9 courses is that students complete them, yet cannot tell the difference between in and outpatient coding. They may not be aware that there IS a difference. It is a big difference, too.

I do not know why you have such a chip on your shoulder about this.

Why? - Anonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
Because you probably don't have a clue about the Career Step (or any other program) and think that Andrews is the only educational choice available. I obviously was prepared for the CPC exam through Career Step because I took the exam and passed. Those things are only guidelines, it is not etched in stone. Andrews may be well known in certain areas of the country (are the AHIMA approved?) but where I live, no one recognizes them, either for coding or for transcription. The AHIMA and AAPC programs are the most widely recognized. If I have a chip on my shoulder it is because of I am sick of hearing about Andrews. It seems to be brought into every discussion regardless of the topic. There are pros and cons to every program, you need to be pointing that out instead of telling people that success is guaranteed if you enroll in their program.

Guaranteed success - Nobody said that

[ In Reply To ..]
And you never did get a job coding. Could employers in your area not recognize Career Step, too?

Pros and cons - Seems to me

[ In Reply To ..]
It seems to me that the pros and cons ARE being presented. You just seem to have a real bugaboo about Andrews, for some reason, and appear to see red every time it comes up.

In this thread, someone asked about specific differences. They asked about Andrews in particular. Answers were provided. They focused on Andrews, probably, because the person who answered knows about them. There were no contrasting answers from a working coder who attended Career Step. You are now unhappy about this.

If you can provide better information, please do. I would be careful about checking facts first. It does not help things that you claim you were trained in both inpatient and outpatient coding, yet do not know the difference between the two.

***A couple of thoughts.. - from a fellow student

[ In Reply To ..]
It's already April. You may need to buy next year's coding books at some point in your program. They are not cheap. Keep that in mind and set some money aside for books, association dues, and exam fees.

I don't work for Andrews and I'm not an expert about the program. I expect (and welcome) other Andrews students to join in and correct me if they have another view. Andrews has a schedule and you have to follow it. Students have extensions available, but it can be tough to not have more control over deadlines.

It is quite possible that I have a different learning style and background than many folks, but I had to supplement the Andrews program once I hit advanced coding. The CPC Blitz series helped me a lot.

My dream school program would have included the Blitz at Andrews about halfway through the modules. CPC finally started coming together for me after the intense review. So much so, that I went back and purchased other programs from Codingcertification.org. That is what helped me, but obviously there are many successful graduates from Andrews who did fine without extra materials. It's a hard program, though, make no mistake. I think it has to be that way. Plan accordingly.

I don't know anything about Career Step. Personally, I would probably choose training with AAPC or AHIMA (or both) over CS. The sample lesson that I saw from CS looked good, but I didn't like the hard sell or the price. Good luck to you and I hope that there is information in this post which helps you in your decisions.

Schedules, supplemental materials, and review - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Deadlines are there for a reason. Programs that do not have a schedule like that tend to have high noncomplete rates. They consider it a fact of life and don't much care. They just enroll anyone who will pay, let them exceed the refund date, and turn their accounts over to bill collectors.

Students have different learning styles. Some learn by reading while others need to hear the material read or spoken. That is something you should consider before enrolling. I would have to shoot myself if I had to listen to recorded classes--in anything --I just want a reputable textbook. Others can't deal with textbooks and prefer recordings.

Your experience of everything coming together when you reviewed is typical of any coding program. Coding is complex enough that you have to do the course through, then review to put it together. It is pretty much true of learning anything. You either have to know to review on your own at intervals, or you have to do it on a new job, or you do it the way you did.

schedules - from a fellow student

[ In Reply To ..]
Great points. All of that being said, there are deadlines and high expectations of students at Andrews. It's not a criticism, but something to keep in mind.

I have an acquaintance who started a program at Career Step. It's been 2 and half years and she's made very little progress. I am close to being done. I appreciate the accountability at Andrews and the fact that the program is so difficult. I hope it means that I will be very good at my new job!

Umm, yes, there is a connection there. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I think things are set up that way to help you succeed. When you test, you will do fine, I am sure, and when you get on the job you should slip right into the swing of things.

I hope you will let us know!

PS - from a fellow student

[ In Reply To ..]
I just checked the Career Step website. There is no way that Career Step is teaching enough for a new graduate to be able to sit for the CCS right away.

I call foul.

The Career Step website says that their program prepares students to take the CCA, not CCS. Huge difference!

Again, the program is very overpriced- probably because they have to pay sales staff to troll message boards. Caveat empor.

kelli - Old Pro

[ In Reply To ..]
IMHO, comparing the two is like comparing a Rolls Royce with the city bus. You need a real live instructor. You cannot beat Andrews. I would never hesitate to hire an Andrews grad. Just my two cents' worth.

Thanks for all of the info, everyone sm - kelli

[ In Reply To ..]
I think I have decided against both of them because I am going to do the HIM course at my community college. I costs about the same, but the credits are also transferable to a degree. I am only 42 and still need to put a kid through college and work a lot more years, so I am leery of only getting a coding certificate. I am afraid coding can go the way of MT and I will be forced into another career change in 15 years.

Again, I appreciate all of the input!

In that case . . . - Better Option

[ In Reply To ..]
If you are considering a community college, there are some things to consider. And, no, this has nothing to do with either Andrews or CS.

One is that a CC degree only leads to, at max, the RHIT. With the prerequisites, it can take 3 or more years to complete that. Just the work for a coding certificate program can take 2 with prereqs, more if you only do it part time. If you were already concerned about whether you would need to stick to a schedule, the CC route requires absolute lockstep to the school's schedule, and you sound as though you may be there a long time. (I know people who took 6 years.)

Schools have a limitation on how old courses can be to transfer. If you want to transfer those credits, you will need to do so within the limits. They do not necessarily accept all courses. REPEAT: YOUR COURSES ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO TRANSFER. You are likely to find that the next school will require different courses and might accept few of what you have. A lot of people going from the 2-year HIT to 4-year HIM programs find that they have to repeat work, especially the basics, and that they spend 3, 4, or 5 years doing what they thought would take 2. [Speaking from personal experience, here. Almost nothing from my RHIT program transferred. It was a waste of time and money. The RHIT programs never mention that.]

The second 2 years can be unbelievably expensive, too. You are unlikely toget that far, all things considered.

You can say that you do not care about doing RHIA work, but if your college has an RHIT program, they are already flooding the market with them. And, honestly, the jobs for RHITs can be really disappointing. That college might also have up to a 60% failure rate on the RHIT exam, too. Don't think they will tell you.

If you really do want to use course credit toward a degree, you might want to consider another option.
With the amount of work time you have ahead, you should consider going for a 4-year degree right away. The cost is not necessarily much more, but the job prospects are better by far.

Before signing up for your local college . . . please look into the health informatics program at Western Governor's University. It is accredited by AHIMA and leads to the RHIA. Salaries and job opportunities are much better for RHIAs. You will be able to work in traditional med recs situations or ones that use EHRs. WGU is a nonprofit, real university, not a diploma mill, and the cost can be remarkably reasonable. You work at your own pace, so you can finish in as little as 2.5 years. That is a lot better than the 5 or 6 full-time years that you are looking at now.

I think they will accept work from other AHIMA-accredited programs, so even if you go to the CC, keep it in mind for later.

I have to agree with this poster 100% - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I went the HIM route through my local community college and it took me 2-1/2 years to finish and get my RHIT. This course was a good course, but didn't teach me much coding. I have absolutely no faith in myself to ever get a coding job, as I don't really know how to code. I have only found a job as an HIM clerk and am making 13 dollars an hour. I have 10k in student loans to pay back. I am now enrolled in WGU and will hopefully finish in a year and get my RHIA. When I am all done, I will have about 15k in student debt. I wish I would have bypassed the RHIT and gone straight for the RHIA at WGU - so many more opportunities career-wise. Please, please, research your school and figure out what you really want to do. Do you want to code, clinical documentation, HIM management? Good luck

Just adding ... - RHIA

[ In Reply To ..]
I have encountered a lot of people who say they don't want or don't need an RHIA because they don't want to be suits. In other words, they have heard that RHIAs are managers and that equates to supervisors and they don't want any part of it.

Nothing about the RHIA says you have to be that kind of manager. The A for administration does not mean suit.

There are tons of jobs that require advanced knowledge and expertise in HIA but have nothing to do with supervision. You might not see that so much in small hospitals, but you do in larger organizations and in the industry as a whole.

If you can get that 4-year degree, you will find that you are better off in terms of salary.

Kelli - what have you decided on?

[ In Reply To ..]
Having had some time to digest all the information you've been given, what have you decided your career path might be? TIA

I haven't decided anything yet. sm - kelli

[ In Reply To ..]
I have been on the phone with the college and checking things out online. I recently found out that I am actually going to have the money for whatever I decide, making the student aid/loan thing less of an issue. I still have a lot of researching to do because whenever I think I am pinning it down, something else needs to be considered. I appreciate everyone's information!

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