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possessive plurals - r
Posted: Dec 20, 2010
I've asked this question before so I do apologize the repeat, but how would you explain that you would NOT use an apostrophe for "diabetes management" to indicate possessive quality. I know why you would not, but how would you condense the explanation.
TIA
What is even thought to be possessive? - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Diabetes? In this case it is used as an adjective describing the type of management and not a possessive.
yes - sm
[ In Reply To ..]because I had a student that didnt let it go...she was intent that "management" was belonging to "diabetes"
I think she is right, read what is stated - in the BOS 2, page 28, apo
[ In Reply To ..]HINT: If you can replace
the possessive form with
the preposition of without
changing the meaning, the
apostrophe is correct.
30 degrees̢۪ flexion =
30 degrees of flexion
5 months̢۪ pregnancy =
5 months of pregnancy
but not 5 months of pregnant
so not 5 months̢۪ pregnant
same case:
diabetes management = management of diabetes,
hence:
diabetes' management.
Confusing, or maybe not?!
It is describing the type of management, just - sm
[ In Reply To ..]like if it it said medical management. Not possessive in any way, shape, or form.
Dr. Sims' office is an example of a possessive form when the apostrophe would be used.
Ask The Student This - MT
[ In Reply To ..]Ask the student if she would say "hypertension's management, hyperlipidemia's management, clubbed foot's management," etc.
No, I would not, but following the instructions given in the - apo
[ In Reply To ..]BOS 2, page 28
it is YES.
Isn't this weird?
because the diabetes does not own the management - that is why no apostrophe
[ In Reply To ..]nm
btw, what makes you think that it is plural? It is singular - and not possessive, at all
[ In Reply To ..]nm
all im asking - r
[ In Reply To ..]is how would you explain it simply, because she is quite adamant about this, i've shown her from the style guide why an apostrophe is not needed...either she is not understanding or doesnt want to admit...just wanted to get info from another source.
Here is where she may be getting confused - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]I'm guessing she speaks a foreign language. Maybe here's the way she's thinking:
Now, my Spanish is kinda rusty, but if I remember correctly, for example, "El gato de Juan" would translate to English literally as "The cat of John." We do not speak like that, so it would be changed to "John's cat." It's a possessive. John owns the cat.
She may be getting confused with the phrase "management of diabetes." If she's translating from a language like Spanish, she's hearing that "of fill-in-the-blank," and her mind is automatically adding in an apostrophe. It happens a lot! I hope this helps.
the possessive apostrophe was never a problem - apo
[ In Reply To ..]for me, but now, as I think more about it, it is:
Why do we then put in this phrase, e.g.
"The patient has to return for a followup in 2 weeks' time"
an apostrophe?
This is also not possessive, but we put an apostrophe.
Now I am also confused.
Isn't it silly??!? - no1joe
[ In Reply To ..]Okay... I'm not an expert, but I think this is the Grammar Gods' reasoning for this:
Two weeks' time. Yes, it is a possessive since there is a certain amount of seconds, minutes, hours, and days alloted to a week. The week, in essence, "owns" that amount of time given to it as a standard.
Now here is where it gets ridiculous for me (and I come across this often): "The patient has to return for a followup in 10 days' to 2 weeks' time."
or is it
"The patient has to return for a followup in 10 days to 2 weeks' time???"
I DON'T KNOW!!! I think you drop the first ' after "days" using the same rule behind, for example, "The man and woman's child" (you wouldn't say the man's and woman's child, and I think I get confused above because "days" is already pleural), but I really have NO CLUE!
Yes, it is, silly, I mean! - apo
[ In Reply To ..]In your given examples I would say
.."in 10 days' to 2 weeks' time...
and
..."The man's and woman's child"...
is correct.
I looked up in BOS 2, page 28, the following regarding apostophe use regarding possessive:
"HINT:
If you can replace
the possessive form with
the preposition "of" without
changing the meaning, the
apostrophe is correct.
30 degrees̢۪ flexion =
30 degrees of flexion
5 months̢۪ pregnancy =
5 months of pregnancy
but not 5 months of pregnant
so not 5 months̢۪ pregnant"
Now I am even more confused, since according to the above explanation in the BOS 2 the example given by the OP would really require an apostrophe:
Diabetes management = management of diabetes.
I often noticed that the BOS does not give instructions when it comes to really controversial examples, like the above one.
What is it now??????????????
after pondering and pondering about this - apostrophe issue
[ In Reply To ..]and considering the instructions in the BOS 2, page 28. I really think it needs an apostrophe, and
"diabetes' management"
is correct.
Isn't it silly?
All I can say is: Help !
LOL !
As someone else posted below, the example - see message
[ In Reply To ..]does not say change the wording of the sentence--diabetes of management does not make the least bit of sense in any way.
because maybe an apostrophe IS correct - apo
[ In Reply To ..]diabetes' management -
management of diabetes.
See BOS 2, page 28.
That's all.
Nope. The hint does not say replace with of - sm
[ In Reply To ..]and recast the sentence. The example as they give it would be
diabetes management but NOT diabetes of management which does not make sense). Reread the hint again.
exactly. she has it all backwards, it means - apo
[ In Reply To ..]management of diabetes, NOT diabetes of management !
According to the instructions in the BOS 2, page 28 this is the right form:
Diabetes' management = management of diabetes.
Not the other way around:
Diabetes of management.
oh no! - see message
[ In Reply To ..]In spite of ending in s, diabetes is neither possessive nor plural.
For example, we say:
blood pressure management
time management
hepatitis management
None of these is possessive, none is plural.
yes, I agree, diabetes is singular, but maybe - apo
[ In Reply To ..]it is possessive form, like
in 2 weeks' time, and many others.
AHDI who publishes the BOS should really explain this better, because we are all confused now! Acc. to their "hint" it should be
diabetes' management (management of diabetes) as possessive form, singular.
I LET THIS GO NOW, I had enough.
I'm glad you're dropping it because your own examples show it is not - possessive with no apostrophe needed. nm
[ In Reply To ..]x
these are not MY examples, they are taken - -
[ In Reply To ..]from the BOS 2.
It is very obvious that you do not use one.
I am not confused so don't speak for me. Apostrophe - is not used in this instance. NM
[ In Reply To ..]x
sure you are confused and have - yes
[ In Reply To ..]"blinders" on that let you see only straight forward, not left and not right...they are usually used on......
what about this........... - let it go
[ In Reply To ..]So stated in the BOS 2, page 28. Read it slowly, helps to comprehend:
HINT:
If you can replace
the possessive form with
the preposition "of" without
changing the meaning, the
apostrophe is correct.
30 degrees̢۪ flexion =
30 degrees of flexion
5 months̢۪ pregnancy =
5 months of pregnancy
same scenario:
diabetes' management = management of diabetes,
Take off your blinders!
(you are changing the order of the words) - nm
[ In Reply To ..]?
or maybe not - see message
[ In Reply To ..]For example:
It is usually said: "her leukemia management" not "her leukemia's management".
Also:
Blood pressure management.
Pruritus management.
Cirrhosis management.
Campus directory.
Lupus foundation.
Chorus association.
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