A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Maybe someone can explain this to me - wheres_my_job

Posted: Feb 26, 2012

Okay, so if you go below mininum wage, the company has to "pay extra" to bring your paycheck up to minimum wage, because BY LAW they have to pay at least minimum wage.

But somehow, when they decide to ONLY pay us for "active typing" "hands on keyboard" and NOT for our research (verification of correct terminology, spelling of names, etc) and our documenation (of errors, questions, blanks)...aren't we entitled to have THAT time spent "made up to us," to bring us up to a FAIR PAYCHECK?

I guess I have to ask, if there is a minimum wage the company has to pay...isn't true also, that at a minimum (since slavery was abolished last I heard in the US), a company MUST pay for all work we perform for them???? At a minimum. We're not talking raises, or bonuses, or benefits - we're talking bare-bones minimum...pay for ALL work performed, not just part of the work performed, at the discretion of the employer.

A company can't just pay PART OF the minimum wage, it's AT LEAST minimum wage. So AT LEAST we have to have ALL our work compensated, not just PART.

Help me out here, anybody.

I'm looking for a legal argument... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

Well most companies require a minimum - lines per hour and sm

[ In Reply To ..]
since you're aid on production, they're not going to pay you for example 4 hours of typing and 4 hours of research time if that's what you're asking. By law they have to supplement you to minimum wage, but you can be sure that won't last for long. They may do it in the beginning, but that'll end soon. If you're meeting their minimum production requires then you should be at minimum wage.

No they do not have to pay separately if - Ayn

[ In Reply To ..]
If you are contracted as an employee paid on production, then that is how they legally are required to pay you. If you want to be paid for time spent on research rather than being paid strictly on production, find a job paid hourly.

I disagree.... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
that reasoning is incorrect. Can't put my finger on it, but you can't NOT pay someone for WORK they are doing for you. Nope, not in the US. But thanks for your responses.

when I started out... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I was told that our rate, 8 cents for example, INCLUDED looking stuff up, reading emails, etc - besides, there was a whole lot LESS of that "ancillary" stuff back then anyway. If we are only paid straight production, then they CAN'T ask us to all this other stuff too. You can't have it both ways, I guess is what I'm getting at. At least that is my thinking. Same way with an IC - seems like some companies want to have it both ways - treat them like an IC when convenient, and then the expectations of an employee, when that's convenient.

I guess I'm thinking, these companies want two things - they want us to pay us by "production" - and yet, they ASSIGN US work that should be paid HOURLY. You can't have it both ways, without the two kinds of pays as well (production and hourly).

Well - MT

[ In Reply To ..]
Instead of asking here, try a labor attorney. ? I'm not trying to be snarky but you're getting very different views and to really to get a definitive answer go to someone who deals with these questions for a living.

For what it is worth, I believe if you sign a contract for production of lines, then that is all they are obligated to pay you for. It is the MT's responsibility to know how to research quickly and efficiently. That's why the ads read per x amount of cpl and not cpl and hours for research. If the work is not there, and you're an employee then of course if your "on" then you should be compensated for the hours spent waiting. If you're offered lines after your shift as an employee then you (I personally believe) should be offered either the minimum wage for hours spent waiting or you can take the lines that are available. Thereby giving the MT the choice of the higher pay. I hope that made sense.

I think you have a valid point though if they require (and many do) inputting header/footer, demographic information or verifying that information as correct they should pay that, many do not count that in the reports, I think that is really wrong.

I am poster above - Ayn

[ In Reply To ..]
I was not saying we should or shouldn't be paid for time spent doing all the ancillary stuff -- what I am saying is that legally they are not bound to pay for that time if the MT signs a contract for employment to be paid on production.

Personally, I feel MTs and editors should be paid hourly (with an incentive for going above a certain production level), and this is one reason why I believe that. However, traditionally most MT/editor positions are paid based on production.

Again, legally, if the MT/editor signs that employment contract and accepts that rate of pay, then that is how the employer is legally required to pay.

The legal answer and the ethical answer to your question are not necessarily the same thing.

But contracts aren't 100% "binding" - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I signed a contract based on representations made by the company that A) The number of dictators I would be getting would be limited and B) I would increase my productivity 50% with speech recognition. These turned out to be false, and false partly because of "non-production" work I am REQUIRED to do - NOT included (conveniently enough) in the contract I signed.

So legally there has to be a "meeting of the minds" for a contract to be valid - and I don't think there was in my case, due to the employer withholding crucial information about the job. You can't offer someone a contract, while withholding facts, because then there is no meeting of the minds, so the contract is not valid.

**not arguing with you, just trying to work this out in my own mind, trying to put my finger on something** thanks for your feedback, I do appreciate it!

In your case, I think -- edited - Ayn

[ In Reply To ..]
Your original post did not go into detail about your specific situation. (limited # of dictators, increased productivity with SR, etc.)

With regard to your original question, I stand by my answer(s).

I have found it true that a lot of the things said in an interview process are not actually in the contract and not in writing (promises of only 1-2 accounts, increased productivity with SR, etc.). I don't know the legal aspects of this, but I imagine that is exactly how they get around it -- what they say in the interview doesn't really matter, it's what is in the employment contract that is signed. Sad, but seems to be how things works.

However, if you feel there are factors constituting a breech of contract, then you need to be speaking to an employment/labor attorney.

It sounds like the issues you are having involve more than just being paid on production. You do not say whether you were told at the beginning that you would be paid on production or not, but if you were, then that is all you can reasonably expect to be paid. Fair or not -- again, I think we should be paid hourly, but if you accepted that form of payment, then you knew ahead of time that your time spent researching, etc. would cut into your production.

If they deceived you on just how much "extra" there would be with demographics, researching patient info, etc -- I don't know the answer to that and I think that is where an attorney comes in. Yes, I believe it is unfair and deceitful of the employer, but I do not know if it is illegal...

I am filing a complaint - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I believe it's called wage and hours - it varies by state, but I have been looking into it. I appreciate your feedback and perspective.

having it both ways - mt3

[ In Reply To ..]
But you can't have it both ways either. Who held the gun to your head when you agreed to compensation? As long as you've agreed to the compensation, you won't have a legal leg to stand on. When you are paid piece rate, that's what that means. Now, are they reporting HOURS on your paystub? Because if they are, THERE is your argument :-)

Again, goes back to full disclosure... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
No one held a gun to my head - however, the legal standard is "meeting of the minds" for a contract to be valid. There is no meeting of the minds, if one party withholds crucial information (same thing with stock market and investors - you can't present a "fake" portfolio about some investment, to get people to invest).

Same thing here, I feel - I was given a "fake" version of what the job would entail - therefore, doesn't matter if I agreed or not - same as with investors, it doesn't matter with they "agreed" to invest, if that investment was based on a false picture, false information.

I do appreciate your feedback and perspective, I will mull it over!

the MTSO cannot have it both ways, either - that is the problem...

[ In Reply To ..]
The fact that the MTSO demands time sheets from employees is a big problem.

MTSOs cannot insist that you produce X lines in an hour to meet wage requirements if they have no jobs available during those times! This requires the employee to work greater than 8 hours a day to meet the minimum requirement for compensation and benefits.

Thank you - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
What I want to know is, what is the method in the madness in overhiring - or putting too many people on an account, when there is not enough work for ONE PERSON????

I don't get it....I guess I'm not evil and conniving enough to understand....

deleted post - Ayn

[ In Reply To ..]
I was just repeating myself :-)

Has to be a meeting of the minds - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
If I agree on the presumption that there will NOT be a bunch of ancillary work to do - verification, notation, etc - and then there is A LOT of ancillary work - then the contract is not valid.

Think of someone stacking bricks - I say, I'll pay you to stack these bricks, 1 cents per brick - okay. But what if my employee shows up for work, and I say, "I need you to hose these bricks down before you stack them, they're all dusty, here's the hose" - and it takes half an hour - hey wait a minute, the employee MUST be paid for the time it takes to hose down those bricks, if they are a requirement of the job. And if they have to hose down bricks EVERY TIME they work - they've got to be paid for the time it takes to hose 'em down - doesn't matter if I as an employer say I only pay 1 cent a brick.

Work is work is work - and I've GOT to be paid for all of it!

Thanks for the feedback, it is clarifying things in my mind. Please let me know if you see a flaw in my brick stacking analogy.

hourly vs piece rate - mt3

[ In Reply To ..]
your brick analogy doesn't really work. Because the REALITY is there are a lot of professions who are paid piece rate and yet incur time doing other things. A seamstress is paid $1.50 per product produced. Her sewing machine goes down, she spends 4 hours fixing it. She ends her day making $15.00. That's the down side of being paid piece rate.

Your only standing is to get a contract stating you will be paid hourly. Careful what you wish for

Seamstress sets her own rates - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
But, if you are an employee, sewing shirt sleeves for someone else and the machine goes down - it's the employer's responsibility to fix the machine. She doesn't fix it herself.

I agree with you. We are paid on - production but SM

[ In Reply To ..]
I look at it this way. If we just produce lines (which is what we are paid for) that's one thing. When we have to research, put in documentation that we are not paid for, which is part of producing those lines, that should be paid for as well. Come on, everyone, think about it. Think of it like a production line. This whole issue would be mute if we were paid a decent wage.

A suggestion... - Efficiency

[ In Reply To ..]
WMJ, even though we are diametrically opposed politically, you are one of my favorite posters of all time on this board!! Your thoughts are always well reasoned out in your posts.

My suggestion is that you ask an unemployment lawyer, your state DOL, or some other authority/expert. All you will get on here are a bunch of uninformed opinions by those who mean well and THINK they "know" but in fact do NOT.

Go it straight from the horse's mouth. That way you will have the CORRECT answer and save yourself a LOT of time!! :)

Thanks so much Efficiency! - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
Is there any greater compliment, than one given to you by someone who's politics are "diametrically opposed?"

I thank you so much for your encouraging words and advice. Onward and upward! Never give in and never give up! (I'm thinking of that Galaxy comedy with Sigourney Weaver and Tim Allen) (I really love that movie) (I think I've got the quote not quite right)

it has nothing to do - with the interview

[ In Reply To ..]
paying minimum wage is the law of the land. They have to provide you with enough work to make minimum wage or make it up to you. Get a labor lawyer. Do not go to the DOL. Get a lawyer. Think class action.

explanation - mt3

[ In Reply To ..]
IMO, yes, you should be paid for ALL the work you do on the company's behalf.

So that would mean you are paid hourly. Did you sign an agreement that you are paid piece rate? If you did, there's your legal argument, you have none.

Nobody would be complaining - sbmt

[ In Reply To ..]
about any of this if we were paid a decent line rate. A few years ago when I was making 10 cpl plus getting paid extra for bolded letters, headings, etc, etc, I spent as much time as it took to make sure I did it perfectly, but at 7 cpl, I am not going to get too excited about any of it to be honest. I do a reasonable search, but nobody can be expected to spend hours of time when it takes so long just to get a decent line count. Wow, I really need to get out of this business!

No meeting of the minds - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
If all you had to do is sign a contract, to be bound by it, regardless of whether the other party was intentionally withholding information - there goes the whole free enterprise system.

This is a very basic element of contract law - I am astounded that so many MTSOs think we MTs are so...incapable of legal reasoning, that they blithely assume they can get away with this forever.

but - mt3

[ In Reply To ..]
You would have to prove that AT THE TIME THE CONTRACT was signed, the conditions which were represented were false. You can't really do that.

Sounds like you need to renegotiate your contract (aka look for another job) because I don't really think you'd win this one. "Meeting of the minds" is such a loosy-goosy term that IMO it would take more time, money, and energy to prove that.

This is why I don't sign contracts with MTSOs unless *I* have written the contract.

That's what wage and hours division is for... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I can't prove it...but Wage and Hours CAN look into it - audit time sheets, and so forth...the data is there, the Wage and Hours Division can get it. I'm an employee, I have rights still in this country, I just need to exercise them.

Wage Theft in America - check out this book

[ In Reply To ..]
I read your post above in which you say you are going to file a complaint. Good for you! Do it! Wage theft is a dirty little secret, and I think MTSOs exemplify how it's done and accomplish it perfectly.

You may be interested in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Wage-Theft-America-Americans-Paid/dp/1595584455

Thank for the tip on the book! - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
That's exactly the name for it - wage THEFT. Let us not glorify what these people are doing to us, it's just plain old stealing, 'cause they figure we're too weak/dumb/female/hormonal/disempowered/trapped to do anything about it.

Playing the devil's advocate here...sm - wasHappyMt

[ In Reply To ..]
Since we are working at home, what other choice does the employer have than to pay us strictly by what we produce in the way of lines? Do you honestly think an employer can just take anyone's word that they spent 2 hours of their shift researching things? What if the employee spent 2 hours doing laundry, or answering the phone, or making some lunch, or helping the kiddos with their homework?

Our jobs are unique in that we have the freedom to pretty much do what we want while we are on their time. As long as we keep up our production to the minimum set by the company there is not a problem with this. However, I really cannot see how a company would be required or even expected to pay us for time spent while we are in our own homes and they have no way of knowing what we are actually doing. They only way they have of knowing what we are doing is to pay us by the line produced. No more, no less. No, I am not a suit. I just understand the way business works.

Faulty thinking - mt3

[ In Reply To ..]
Please, please don't fall for the "benefits" of working at home as real benefits.

I worked for a company a few years ago, not in transcription. They were in Georgia, I'm in PA. I was paid $60k a year. I worked from home. I signed on at 8 a.m., signed out (most days) at 4 p.m. If anything, I was MORE conscientious because I didn't want them to think I was taking advantage of them. When I went to visit corporate they wanted to see this amazing employee who got so much done. Turns out, in my fervor, I was doing the work of 2.5 people :) Company got a bargain in me!

The point is that you *can* be paid hourly with the expectation of a production result and work at home. I just know I don't want to be paid hourly to do MT because no one is going to come close to what I make an hour.

You are probably the exception to the rule...sm - wasHappyMt

[ In Reply To ..]
However, there are a lot of companies that would go under if they paid all their employees who work at home an hourly wage. It just could not be done. Now, I do agree we should be paid a much rate per line than what we are currently making. But I know it is not feasible to expect an hourly rate as an at-home employee.

should be a much "better" rate. Long day already! nm - wasHappyMt

[ In Reply To ..]
;)

That's why American economy is bad - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
They can't pay us a decent hourly wage because....??? They would go out of business? So WE have to be under-compensated, to keep THEM in business?

That's probably what they tell those Chinese workers as well...

It's easy for them to come close to what I make an hour - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
Trust me, when I started out, it was in a pathology department, where the starting pay was $13/hour. Those women were conscientious employees...but they took their breaks AND their lunch AND got real benefits!

Flash forward to today, and MY job...which is a lot more difficult than theirs...number of dictators, number of different departments in DIFFERENT health systems (we all know the routine)...all the acct specs...and I ain't makin' $13/hour. *No need to flame me about looking for another job, just can't go into specifics about my situation, because of legal aspect*

When paid on production the companies have ALWAYS only paid for production - Happy MT Robin

[ In Reply To ..]
But here is where, in my opinion, they are starting to really cross the line. If I understand it correctly, the OP's company wants their employees to keep track of time spent in active typing and then calculate that all up at the end of the day for your hours, rather than signing in at 8 am and signing out at 4 pm with 1200 or 1500 or however many lines you get done in that day. I believe this is similar to those companies who want to have employees have a schedule, but yet if there is no work, sign out and come back on their "own" time and try to make up the work.

Someone mentioned talking to a labor lawyer and I really think you should, because I think this is illegal. I don't know enough about the laws for people paid on piece meal or commission, which is essentially what we are, but there is something inherently wrong with this scenario. I do not, however, have a really good legal argument against it. You need to get that from someone who has legal experience.

I believe - and I am NOT accusing anyone in this thread of this and I'm NOT a suit - that this type of thing is probably a backlash from those MTs who are out there - and we all know they are indeed out there - who will do one or two reports an hour and either they are so incompetent that they really do spend that much time on research or they're lazy and they think they can get away with this type of behavior and earn minimum wage.

I'm not saying that what the companies are doing is right and I'm not even at all sure that this is why, it's just a guess on my part. There's a flaw in the system if this is how the companies feel they need to treat their employees. I don't even know why companies HAVE time sheets, etc. The last company I worked for before I saw the light and went FT with Landmark had us take our production and divide by 200 lph and THAT's what we were supposed to put for hours.

The only way to get a really valid answer, though, is go talk to your Department of Labor and spell it out and see what they say.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful post - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
This may sound stupid, but it's hard, even after you've found the right website (it varies by state), and the online form they have to file a complaint...it's hard to put your name down, and all the specifics, and take that step...the whistleblower step, if you will...so thanks again for your encouragement...I'm going to write up a little "dossier" with bullet points, you know...it can double as a press release...it's hard to stand up for yourself...when you feel already you're standing in quicksand....

It is completely scary, I know. - Happy MT Robin

[ In Reply To ..]
I went to the Dept of Labor years ago because of a possible sexual harassment issue where I was working at the time. It was one of the scariest things I have ever done, but they were very, VERY nice to me and gave me good information.

One thing I will mention if you do decide to go talk to them, make sure you have copies of any correspondence outlining what the company wants you to do. In my experience with them, they wanted dates, times, names of people who had been witness to the harassment. I didn't have any of that - it never even occurred to me to write any of it down.

So, document, document, document, and good luck.

"Document" is my middle name :) - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I have a special little notebook, date, time, what it is, etc...oh yeah :)

Where's my job has a good point... - halfmt

[ In Reply To ..]
7 years ago when I first started at Spheris, I was on an acount that had templates with pre-placed headers for all work types, most of which were never used, had to be deleted and replaced with verbatim dictation. However, to determine our "line count," the number of lines already in the template was subtracted from each document. I raised holy h*ll, and they had to rectify it. Because the contract stated I was being paid for the lines typed, I proved where we were getting ripped off.

The problem could lie mostly in the wording of the job description--they almost all now include the research/demo confirmation, etc. and are part of the "contract" in as much as they are explicitely spelled out. If enough of us squawk about it, the squeaky wheel might be addressed. Or, we can roll over and take it.

not in my contract... - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
...I still don't think a person can voluntarily AGREE to not get paid for work they do for an employer. There are all kinds of things people initially agree to, but when it goes to court, the court decides it doesn't matter what someone agrees to, the law is the law is the law, and if a company can't do X, they CAN'T. Cripes, if people could voluntarily sign themselves into slavery, they probably would, and that would make it that much harder (if not impossible) for somebody else to NOT put themselves in that position. So you don't get to sign away your rights as an employee, no matter how much ya really wanna suffer at the hands of an employer!!!!

bottom line - is this

[ In Reply To ..]
No matter what they said in the interview or if they didn't say anything at all, they are obliged to pay you minimum wage. Amen. We all know we falsify out timecards on a daily basis and I pray for somebody to get that instruction in writing and take it directly to a labor lawyer, not the DOL, they will probably not help you, but a lawyer. A class action suit might seem tasty to him.

Okay, I'll google labor lawyer - wheres_my_job

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm sure dozens if not hundreds of MTs have that in writing. It's like when you're in love - you want to keep finding new ways to tell the person you're in love with, how wonderful you think they are.

Same here - the companies want to keep telling us how constrained and restricted our pay is, finding new ways all the time of letting us now what they're NOT paying us for.

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am either straight typing or editing, I have to hit enter over and over to get the page to move up. If I am towards the end of the screen and call up a heading, i.e., impression, I can't see the heading and have to hit enter to move it up. Anybody else having this problem? If so, how do I fix it? This is my second night on DQS 7.1. This new version of DQS is so time-consuming. ...

Aug 23, 2013

to REQUIRE us to make up hours when they don't have work available during our scheduled shifts? How can they take away the option of taking off without pay when they haven't provided any work during our shift? That's like requiring us to be on 24/7 call for free to try to get our hours in when work is low. HOW IS THAT LEGAL? ...

Mar 05, 2014

Every week on certain days there is no work so I am having to flex flex flex PTO PTO until all used up, etc. I have read of some of you getting minimum wage due to OOW, can someone tell me how to achieve that? I am so fed up with this. I am pretty much out of PTO and don't want to use it for this anymore. I work a second job because my pay has been halved with Nuance, yet I still have to also work around the clock just to get my hours in with Nuance. I think we all know if this were a re ...

Mar 06, 2015

Or tell me where I can find information about it in paperwork or online? I'm a newbie that's been getting makeup pay every pay period, but I really don't know the what's or why's about it. Also, how is it determined what pay tier you get? Is it by line count? I understand about the QC and quality scores affecting pay, but I don't get the tier is determined. ...

Jun 13, 2015

Can anybody give an illogical (N is not logical) reason for why they keep on hiring and hiring and hiring when most everyone is complaining of OOW or even quitting because OOW. I don't buy that they want those employees to quit. These are valuable employees with lots of years in the trenches and lots of experience. I chose a really awful time slot and really awful schedule to keep from running out of work and I keep running out of work. Like many others, soon I will be chained to the comp ...

Oct 09, 2010

and offering OT on weekends when there is not enough work as it is. As per usual during an incentive (I work FT and work Saturday), half way thru my shift I get NJA. *** On these stupid incentives, I just pray that I can even get my hours in much less any freaking OT. I know this is a redundant saying but......THIS COMPANY MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE!! All the supervisors/managers/whoever who make these decisions all RIDICULOUS........... ...

Feb 20, 2012

I'm new at Nuance. I see the QC and QA percentage on my time sheet. I understand QA but what is the QC? Wondering because I know this is what determines if and how much your bonus is. Thanks! ...

May 09, 2012

I keep seeing health informatics jobs and a lot of my former MT co-workers are going back to school for this. Ok so my stupid question is, what exactly is this? ...

Jun 27, 2012

Now there are none. God I hate this crap. ...

Jul 04, 2012

but when I do ALT-U, it says I have NO JOBS. What's the deal???? ...