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Question about Andrews School - sm - Susan

Posted: Apr 07, 2011

Looking at coding schools. I saw a few here went to Andrews. Seems to be a thorough course, albeit expensive. Did you get your money's worth? We you able to find a job after getting credentialed and did the course prepare you well for credential testing?

Those of you who are MTs, could you opt out of certain classes?

What made you choose Andrews? Would it be better to take the course through AHIMA or AAPC, why/why not?

How long would it take to go through the Andrews course if you had lots of time to devote to it?

Thanks for any guidance.

Andrews - AnotherAnonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
I completed the Andrews course. I can't comment about the AHIMA or AAPC courses as I don't know anything about them, nor anyone who went through them. I chose Andrews because I knew of their highly respected MT program and had followed the boards **** way back when and learned something about the coding program and the high quality of instruction. I am a former long-time MT, but there is not an option in the Andrews course to skip terminology, A&P, etc. I was able to complete those modules as well as disease processes and pharmacology probably more quickly than most because I had studied them at the college level before (long ago) and had been an MT for eons. I did find this part tedious at times, but it served as a valuable review and also rounded out my knowledge in these areas.

I passed the CCS exam on my first attempt, after reviewing for a couple of months. I was fortunate enough to get a job a couple of months later. So I suppose you can say I got my money's worth. I think if you were able to devote all of your time to the course (not working while doing it), you could probably finish in about a year. My best advice, though, is to try to get some experience in an HIM Department or physician office or clinic while you are still in school, perhaps by volunteering or working very part time. It is very difficult out there for new graduates to be considered for coding jobs without experience, and believe me: the last thing you are going to want to hear after all your hard work and dedication, and passing the CCS or CPC exam is that you should get a job as a clerk and work your way up. I hope this answer is helpful to you.

Not the OP but thanks for the information! - Also interested

[ In Reply To ..]
I was particularly interested that you passed the CCS exam the first time. From what I've heard, that isn't easy to do. Congratulations!

Congratulations on passing the CCS! - nm

[ In Reply To ..]
nm

For what it's worth . . . - MT turned Coder

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When you compare costs, it's going to be important to compare the ACTUAL cost and what is included in it, not just the advertised tuition. The quality of the materials provided, instructor support and their qualifications, and how long you have to complete the program are all important. Schools vary widely in those areas. If the tuition looks cheaper, it's likely to be because they are lacking in one or more of those areas.

If programs look like they take less time to complete, the time they allow may be unrealistic and your tuition costs may be increased due to having to take courses over again when you don't have enough time to finish them. Or, a year-long program might seem appealing until you find that you have to take the courses separately so that it stretches on and on.

Programs also vary in the amount of coverage they offer of coding itself & the degree to which they teach it. Pay close attention to the credential they teach toward. A school that says their students need 3 years of working experience in order to pass a credentialing exam is telling you that you will not learn enough in their program--they don't believe they can do it or that you could learn it. One program you mentioned doesn't teach inpatient coding at all and doesn't teach the basic sciences, which is an obvious explanation for why their tuition is half the amount of others and it takes less time to complete. One of them is very clear in informing you that they have no instructors at all--you are on your own with them.

The tuition at Andrews includes both inpatient and outpatient coding. They teach them as separate subjects and their students begin coding the first day, not halfway into the program. They teach coding and the basic sciences side-by-side, using a model that fits the way most adults prefer to learn. They use industry-standard reference materials and teach you how to understand them, because that is what you will need to do as a coder. They teach beyond the bare minimum needed for a first job, because they feel they are preparing you for where they know you will want to go in your career.

What about skipping the basic sciences? Right now, coding educators are struggling with the need to provide coders with MORE background, because it will be necessary to code effectively in ICD-10. Schools that do not cover this or allow you to skip it are not doing you any favors.

I spent a morning last week going over the coding on some hand surgeries with the surgeon. If you think you can intelligently discuss the soft tissue anatomy of the hand with a surgeon and understand what is involved in the procedures . . . well, then maybe you don't need to review anatomy. (I was definitely embarrassed.) Otherwise, there is enough for you to learn! If you find you already know everything they're trying to teach, then you can just keep going and learn beyond that level. I think they encourage that. In any event, if you know the material already, you still need to review, but will be able to make faster progress overall.

Another reason I think they feel you need exposure to that material is so that you will understand what most coders receive in terms of education. When you are a supervisor or auditor someday, you will need to know that in order to be effective.

FWIW - Curious coder

[ In Reply To ..]
Actually, it is not the schools who recommend the work experience, it is AHIMA and AAPC. AHIMA recommends 3 years of coding experience prior to the CCS exam and AAPC recommends 2 years prior to the CPC. It is not mandatory, but recommended. My school does not recommend work experience prior to taking the CPC exam, but do recommend taking 2 practice exams first, and they do teach inpatient coding and the basic sciences. How amazing that I didn't have to name drop. I think it is great that Andrews graduates are able to pass upon graduation, but not everyone attends Andrews. Also, having certification is no guarantee that you will fall into a job. Most of the coders I know work for a year or two first before taking their exams, and even then some of them do not pass on the first try. If Andrews is so great, why are you all about self promotion on this board? That is not meant in a negative way, but I'm curious as it is something I have observed here.

Nothing wrong with name dropping if you are proud of your school - or keep it a secret if you are ashamed of it

[ In Reply To ..]
If you go to a good school, give it the praise it deserves. On the other hand, if you go to a school and find out that graduates can't code very well or can't pass certification exams or can't get a job, there's nothing wrong with posting that.

I would be against your establishing a rule that people can't mention the name of their school any time they want. The more information we have on here, the better.

You said "Most of the coders I know work for a Year or Two...do not pass on the first try - Curious

[ In Reply To ..]
Your message is very interesting. I hope you don't mind if I ask you a couple of questions.

You wrote, "Most of the coders I know work for a year or two first before taking their exams, and even then some of them do not pass on the first try."

That's not a good sign about the level of education/training your friends received.

What kinds of jobs are they getting, if their skills aren't good enough to pass the certification exams even after two years of experience?

Why would you say they are having such a tough time? How were they even able to get jobs without certification? From what I've seen, coding certification is almost a necessity. You said you were curious. Now I'm curious about why those coders you know (1) were not able to take the exam earlier than a year or two; (2) got jobs somehow even without being certified; (3) still couldn't pass certification on the first try.

Do you know where they got their training? Did you know them as fellow students/graduates of the course you took? Do you have any insight into why they had so much trouble? It's okay with me if you want to add the name(s) of the schools. That helps with the conversation in my opinion.

I suspect that was another Drive-By and you will not get an answer - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I wouldn't wait up for an answer. LOL.

Drive-by - Curious coder

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She didn't have to wait, I answered her question the best I could, LOL.

Answers - Curious coder

[ In Reply To ..]
I'm not a drive-by person and I'll try to answer your questions the best I can without divulging the name of my employer or any particular school; sorry, but I'm not comfortable doing that. First of all, the people I know who didn't pass the CPC on the first try got their education through a community college program or on the job, some of them were MAs who coded for their docs and then became certified coders in addition to their other duties. No one I know tried to take the exam directly out of school. I've been told that the CPC exam is tough, so I am impressed with those of you who passed on the first try. I work at an outpatient facility and many of the coders began in the billing department, learned coding through independent study and OTJ, worked their way up the ladder, then got certified, that is how they got hired without being credentialed. Some employers will take people who express an interest from within their ranks and let them intern or train on the job. Some people just are not comfortable enough to try for certification right away, so work for a while first. Work, family and financial obligations can stand in the way of being able to devote enough time to study and properly prepare for an exam, there are a lot of reasons why someone would not pass on the first try. No one I know attended Andrews but there are many ways to success, for some of us it just takes a while longer.

Thanks for coming back with this additional information - Also Curious

[ In Reply To ..]
I think it's very wise not to give your employer's name. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem saying where I went to school, whether it was a good or a bad experience, but I sure wouldn't give any clue about where I work. Not ever.

Thanks for the additional information!

Nothing wrong with that system, even if it does take a little longer - see message

[ In Reply To ..]
I feel very comfortable saying I'm from Andrews, but I applaud you for taking the route you took too. As you said, there are many ways to success. Thanks for posting and for the additional information!

Name dropping - AnotherAnonymous

[ In Reply To ..]
If you look at the post directly above mine, I was responding to a question specifically about Andrews. I don't think that falls under the category of "name dropping." A question was asked and I answered it.

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