A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry
Who uses two spaces after punctuation other than me? - Mel
Posted: Sep 07, 2010
I was reading and found it is okay to use one space after punctuation. This is going to be a hard habit to break. I am old school and was taught to use two spaces after punctuation in typing class.
Thanks for any comments.
Mel
Two Spaces - spitfire78
[ In Reply To ..]I've always and forever used 2 spaces after a period. That's the way I was taught a long, long time ago and have always done it.
Blame it on the shift from Selectrics to proportionally based fonts. - Liked double too, but got over it.
[ In Reply To ..]Please, this has been happening all over the place--as in EVERYWHERE--not just in our field. Double spaces are no longer considered necessary to readability, and in fact in many parts of the world never were. So, belatedly, the double space is joining disintegrating typewriters in the verbal landfill so to speak.
BTW, my SR accounts are all now programmed to single spaces. Amazingly, a number of edited reports in our client archives show that at least one MT editor has been laboriously "correcting" double spaces back in! I tried out of curiosity for a few sentences to see just how long this would take these people, but abandoned it promptly since it would so obviously be tremendously devastating to income.
Now, our new platform reformats the entire report AFTER we send (including single spae), so presumably those few at my company are finding themselves protected from themselves. A forum community this large, though, undoubtedly contains a few who are still doing just that. To those special few, I strongly recommend taking better care of yourselves.
In medical transcription the ONLY reason for one space is money! - LoriMT
[ In Reply To ..]Read my post below regarding monospaced versus proportional fonts. It's a completely ridiculous argument especially when you consider that hospital reports are uploaded to computer systems such as Meditech or Cerner systems and are converted to a monospaced font.
It is to save money period. It has nothing to do with readability. If it did, two spaces would be prefered because it is inherently more readable.
As long as Im expected to proofread reports, then Im - putting in 2 spaces, for ME! - Rocky R.
[ In Reply To ..]
Two spaces - MT
[ In Reply To ..]I've typed two spaces between sentences for over 30 years. I think it's easier to read that way. I wonder, who came up with this one-space stuff and what purpose does it serve, other than the $$$ saved in medical transcription in cases where they still pay for spaces.
My thoughts exactly, another scheme by AHDI to cut our pay - Calculate it
[ In Reply To ..]I cannot imagine how many characters per shift MTs would be shorted with only one space after a period. Multiply that over approximately 10 days for a pay period and then per month, and then annually, and I think we'd have a staggering amount of characters we'd be paid for.
Interesting. I wonder if, even if we use 2 spaces, - and those keystrokes are being - sm
[ In Reply To ..]counted at our end, if the MTSO is counting the lines based on a single space at their end. That would explain the unexplainable drops in lines and pay so many people on this forum have been seeing in recent months.
I'll betcha the people that come up with all this MT-cheating garbage have to wear long sleeves whenever they go anywhere. Gotta cover up those SCALES.
- what she said
[ In Reply To ..]The ENTIRE point of medical transcription now is to make money for companies. In 20 years, it has gone from a career to a job to seamstresses in 1917.
one space or two space - wwaiting
[ In Reply To ..]I once got a job 20 years ago typing for a newspaper. Interesting that they used one space after punctuation and also many paragraphs than one would for a letter or paper or such. Still, reports are more likely to be letters and such, read by other doctors, so to me look better with the 2 spaces as used to be taught in business classes. Do they teach the new MTs and general business students 2 spaces nowadays?
Two spaces always - RLee
[ In Reply To ..]Learned to use 2 spaces in grammar school and all through my school years. Where did you read this?? My first thought is maybe it is a new AHDI AAMT) rule - which is ridiculous if that is the case. Using one space makes it harder to read, and we all know from being in this industry things are supposed to flow easy for the reader.
The one space rule (sm) - Long time MT
[ In Reply To ..]The one space thing has been around for awhile. Can't remember if it's an AHDI rule or not. All I know is I was taught 2 spaces and my fingers are apparently incapable of learning otherwise. It does make the report easier to read.
one space, two space - travelinMT
[ In Reply To ..]I too am old school, learned it the two-space way and it is a hard habit to break. I have however, worked for clients that insist on only one space and send everything back from QA if it has two spaces. It is a royal pain.
You would think when a client is hundreds of reports behind that they would be more concerned with cleaning up the backlog with properly transcribed reports than they would about whether or not it has two spaces between a sentence. Getting a report back from QA because you put two spaces between a sentence and the rest of the report is 100% correct is ridiculous, especially when I don't get paid by the line.
I went on an assignment to a client that was literally 4+ weeks behind on transcription. An MTSO had taken over the transcription and in the process of changing equipment, etc. they had gotten 4 weeks behind. The hospital employees were now going to be employees of the MTSO and switched from hourly to line count pay. It was the MTSO that had the one-space rule, not the hospital. The hospital told the MTSO they were hiring someone to come in and help catch up the backlog and the MTSO decided I should be part of their QA. QA is not a problem; I wouldn't hire someone new without putting them on QA until I knew what their work was like. Out of 150 reports I would get 100+ back to correct an extra space between one or two sentences in a report. I finally said send me home, they apparently don't need my help to catch up. It was an insult to be told I could not work overtime because my work still had to be checked by QA due to "one-space, two-spaces" when the report itself was 100% correct.
This is client preference. Used to have an account - sm
[ In Reply To ..]that used 1, but all mine currently use 2.
Two spaces for me - despite AHDI BOS - sm - melmt
[ In Reply To ..]I have always used two spaces at end of any sentence. AHDI BOS3 says one space is "preferred" as the "new industry standard". As others have already stated here, two spaces make reports easier to read and isn't that part of our job as MTs? Whatever their reason, I think AHDI is just wrong on this one and I'll stick with the age-old punctuation rules I learned "back in the day". Two spaces for me! :}
:) 2 spaces for me, too. If my company should stop - paying for spaces, then they get 0 spaces.
[ In Reply To ..]*
Heck, why even use any punctuation anymore - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Just one big sentence should do it. I'm sorry, but it's 2 spaces. I don't care what anyone says. It's 2 spaces. Always has been and always will be. What is up with all these changes to the way things are supposed to be. What's next changing the spelling of words? Whoever came up with using 1 space after a period is one of those "lame-brains" (IMHO of course). That's like quote marks. Having gone through secretarial school years and years ago it was always a period after the quotes. I will not change as it doesn't end the complete thought, only what is in quotes. I did work with a girl years ago who only put one space after a period and everything looked like it was one big sentence. I just said to her "heck why even use punctuation any more. And capitalization? Who needs capitalization anymore? Just one sentence would do it." Needless to say I didn't get the warm and fuzzy response from her. LOL
I agree! - yoyo
[ In Reply To ..]Heck, now that the bulk of our population text messages, why not just type it in that format? It has become the dumbing-down of too many people (or should I have typed: 2 mny ppl)?!
Of course, I'm being a smarty pants!
Wouldnt put it past AHDI to make text-message format - their next "preferred format".
[ In Reply To ..]Jst thnk how mch $ the hsptls wud sav, then! They wud B n 7th Hvn!
(Can you tell I loved your post?) ;D
Rocky Raccoon
Two spaces! I learned to type on an IBM Selectric Typewriter - LoriMT
[ In Reply To ..]before I ever heard of medical transcription and it was two spaces after a period. I don't know where AHDI gets off on making up there own rules, but I'm getting tired of it. They have been consistently trying to take our keystrokes away for years with VBC and one space after the period.
I do VR now and the software automatically puts one space after periods. I go through the report and put in the extra space after every single period! I won't let them cheat me! Sneaky little so and so's :)
have to agree Lori - anon
[ In Reply To ..]I am sooo sick and tired of what I call "the book of you-know-what." I work for Focus and am soo sick of their QA and the discrepancies. If I don't type hemoglobin 14.3; hematoctrit 35.2; platelet count etc, I get dinged. If I type it with a semicolon I get dinged. If I type "three" instead of "3," I get dinged and with NASTY notes from QA stating take your fingers put three in front of your face and if you can count them, then put the numeral. If I had done feedback that way for ANY company that I have done QA for, I would have been terminated on the spot. Occasionally, if a VR report or if I type, I type "grams" oops can't do that -- has to be g or gm. Verbatim and to me, this company does NOT care about the patients -- its more the gawd almighty dollar.
Change to one space in an AHDI invention - sm
[ In Reply To ..]In the days of monospace (all same-width characters) fonts (Courier, Pica), spacing was conventionally two spaces after closing punctuation. This allowed for easier reading of documents. With the predominant use of desktop publishing standards, single spacing after punctuation is now acceptable with monospace fonts (although still more difficult to read, in my opinion).
With proportional (varied-width characters) fonts (Times New Roman, etc.), the standard has always been single spacing according to Gregg Reference Manual. The GRM goes on to state that, specifically with Times New Roman, the single space does not always provide a clear visual break between sentences.
Reference: Gregg Reference Manual, 10th edition, paragraph 102.
sorry... is not an AHDI invention - nm
[ In Reply To ..]nm
they must pay someone well to come up with ways to cut pay further. - Carol
[ In Reply To ..]Another reason not to join AHDI.
I still use 2 spaces after a period and will continue - sm - ECMT
[ In Reply To ..]to do so until they tell me not to, get a few more cents that way, LOL. I too learned on a IBM Selectric my senior (or junior, forget which) year in high school. I did work an IC job that required 1 space though, that was a drag, did 1 space for that job, and 2 spaces for my other IC job, talk about going crazy.
I work for the Q, put in 2 spaces. - Being cheap and cheating us. nm
[ In Reply To ..]If I go back & check the job in a few days, there's only 1 space, no double spacing. Maybe I could leave all that stuff out, but old school and the "new" way just doesn't look right and probably take a while to reprogram myself and don't have that much time left.
Was taught single space here... - TLA
[ In Reply To ..]I don't find it odd that they want a single space after a period. I, and my husband, was taught that there was only a need for one space after a period. Granted we're not old, but we're not young either. It's been more then 10 years since either of us were in High School. Our College English classes also didn't teach us to put two spaces in after a period.
Blaming this on AHDI is kind of asinine in my opinion. Change in language, and what is proper in language is changing all the time.
If the widely accepted and widely taught standard - LoriMT
[ In Reply To ..]was to put two spaces after the period, then why should it change? Who decided it should change? The argument about monospaced fonts versus proportional fonts is just a silly argument. Whether you are using a proportional font or a monospaced, it is STILL much easier to read with two spaces after periods and colons. The standards and grammatical rules of the English language were created for effective communication purposes meaning when you write something down or type something, you do so with the reader in mind. How can double spacing after a period not make a document easier to read?
In my personal opinion, double spacing after a period should be considered a subjective rule. Like some sentences are correct with or without the use of certain commas, so should the decision to use two spaces after a period.
Something else to consider is many reports transcribed in Word-based transcription platforms are then uploaded to a hospital-wide system that usually only recognize monospaced fonts. Where I work, the reports when uploaded to our system, they are converted to courier font. So under the whole font theory, I would imagine that two spaces would be preferred.
I'm not sure what different systems, but if reports are transferred into a Meditech or Cerner system, they are converted to courier font.
So you see there are several valid arguments for the use of two spaces after a period and only one good reason not to, the desktop publishing/font arugment.
So why would AHDI arbitrarily adopt the one space rule and put in their bible? Because they are hand in hand with the MTSOs. One space after period means less money paid to the MT. The MTSOs in turn tell their MTs that MUST adhere to the BOS and MUST own a copy.
And don't even get me started on the AHDI push towards mandatory credentialling!
Please, you cannot leave it open like that - mandatory credentialling?
[ In Reply To ..]I have not heard this. Can you explain or give me links. Does this mean they are trying to pass a rule that we have to be credentialled?
I'd like to read more about this.
Well for starters, it's on their website. SM - LoriMT
[ In Reply To ..]Below is from the AHDI website:
For Our Members: AHDI provides medical transcriptionists with the tools to do their jobs well. We help members by:
- Participating in the development of healthcare documentation standards that ensure secure medical information and consumer confidentiality.
- Advocating for legislation and regulations that protect the public’s healthcare information.
- Advocating for legislation and regulations that promote quality in documentation and the need for credentialed professionals.
- Setting standards of education and practice for the medical transcription profession.
- Anticipating and preparing for emerging trends and changes in the industry.
For the Future: Numerous challenges face the health care profession and medical transcriptionists – the evolution of the electronic health record, which is anticipated to change both the process and the role of practitioners in healthcare documentation. In addition, outsourcing of jobs overseas, voice-recognition technologies, and economic pressures are all transforming the profession of medical transcription.
What We Advocate: AHDI supports legislation designed to improve the quality of healthcare documentation, advance healthcare documentation professionals, and address the needs of the U.S. workforce. We encourage our members to support the “Allied Health Reinvestment Act” (HR 4016 and S.2491), which is designed to establish and reauthorize health education programs to address the shortage of qualified medical transcriptionists and allied health professionals. The association also promotes the development and implementation of standards in practice, education and compensation in the industry as well as the credentialing of professionals to ensure those standards.
And here's a link to another document put out by the AHDI about mandatory credentialing.
http://cramt.com/Documents/The%20Case%20for%20A%20Credentialed%20Work%20Force.doc
One space - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Where I work, we use 1 space. They changed it from 2 spaces before I started to work here. The management team is VERY pro AHDI, so that may have been the reason. If AHDI says it is best practice, that is what we have to do here.
The purpose of punctuation, and spaces, is to make - things easier to read, and to show - sm
[ In Reply To ..]when thoughts end or begin, among many other things. Two spaces after a period at the end of a sentence was taught because it separates one sentence from another. Punctuation is very small, and the reader's eye doesn't always catch periods that easily. Two spaces makes it more possible to do that.
Also, some internet transcription setups completely destroy our work once it arrives at the hospital's end. Often the sentences "wrap around", and even though we put in spaces, paragraphs, periods, paragraphs, etc., what comes out at their end is just one big, humongous, closely-spaced, impossible-to-read single paragraph.
Once when I was at my doctor's office, I glanced over her shoulder to see what the medical record looked like, and it was a mess. Sometimes it just broke off sentences in the middle, and started them again somewhere else. Not always at the beginning of the line, either. It was hideous! The doctor squinted at it and had a hard time extracting information from it. As a result, more of my visit timeslot was taken up by the doctor squinting at the computer, than by the doctor actually examining me. No wonder so many mistakes are made with meds, dosing, etc. The doctors can often barely read the medical record at their end!
Again, the purpose of 2 spaces after a period is for ease of reading, which can directly translate to quality of patient care.
And the purpose of AHDI is anything BUT quality of patient care. It's all about quantity of money. Theirs.
They not only want to take over the world, they want - to re-write the English languge, too. Pfftt!!!
[ In Reply To ..]nm
Who uses two spaces after punctuation other than me? - eagles_fan
[ In Reply To ..]I have always put two spaces between sentences. I was taught that way in business school, and I have never been told at a job to put one space.
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