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Grip of the Day - mt13
Posted: Nov 25, 2011
Over many years, reading many posts on these boards, I am still shocked every time I see grammar error using comma/period "outside" quotation marks.
As professional MTs we should all be aware that commas and periods go "Inside" the quotation marks -- Always.
Most shocking is when I see QA editors continually make these errors in their posts on these boards. Scary.
These rules have changed over the years, but current grammar rules state they go "inside" always.
Pay attention when reading any newspaper, book, magazine article, etc. This is how you will see the comma/period handled within quotation marks.
So, what's a "grip" ????? - nm ;)
[ In Reply To ..]xx
Oops -- Gripe! - mt13
[ In Reply To ..]nm
But that is incorrect.... - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
my gripe is people who can't get a grip and relax on this board - try to shut it off for a few huh?
[ In Reply To ..]No policing on this board - I've been temporarily banned for it in the past.
I'm relaxed - you?
[ In Reply To ..]
hmmmmmmmmmm yessss. after a food holiday? you are kidding, right? - //nm
[ In Reply To ..].
That is correct. However, - Historian
[ In Reply To ..]Actually I share that gripe with ya! MTs should know better, especially QAers. I was stunned to see the letter reproduced on the board by a QAer to her employer that had the punctuation outside the quotation marks.
That was NOT a casual post that some MT made. That's a different ball of wax entirely. I cut people slack on those. Still, sometimes I have to wonder about an MT who thinks the plural of "lady" is "lady's" and that it's appropriate to begin a sentence with "Me."
There is one exception to the "rule," however, and it should be mentioned if MTs are going to use newspapers and websites as their "examples:" In British publications the punctuation IS placed outside the quotation marks. The difference between the U.S. and England had to do with spacing on printing press plates back in the day. Just a little trivia, but it's important for MTs, editors, etc. to be aware of this difference.
quotation marks - sm
[ In Reply To ..]Place colons and semicolons outside closed quotation marks.
Williams described the experiment as "a definitive step forward"; other scientists disagreed.
Benedetto emphasizes three elements of what she calls her "Olympic journey": family support, personal commitment, and great coaching.
(Purdue.edu)
Sorry, but MT is definitely not the job for you - if you are a strict grammarian.
[ In Reply To ..]a lot of MTs (including myself) just don't know and don't care too much about rules of comma placement and go on instinct as to what looks correct (should I have put a comma after and there?). These days speech rec has pretty much eliminated articles (the, a, an) in front of nouns... my last job told me not to bother with putting them back in. Should I bother with paragraphs for huge chunks of text or not? Is anyone even reading this stuff? How about things like follow-up (now hyphenated everywhere), Chem-7 (is this a proper name now?), a Nephrologist or Cardiology, commas after or or and in a series and the like... take the time to rewrite and correct or not... does any of this really matter much these days? These are just the few things I can think of off the top of my head.
I suggest if you love grammar and writing you find a job as a copy editor for a publisher, newspaper or magazine. Between people with minimal English skills, VR and then having to crank tons of it out daily to boot, doing MT these days is guaranteed to drive you crazy!
"If you are a strict..." - Wow.
[ In Reply To ..]I'm rather baffled by that response. How could anyone let these simple grammar rules to through to a patient's chart? I'm not flaming, but I am curious. How many lines do you go through in an average hour?
You don't know me well enough to be my - career counselor...
[ In Reply To ..]I was simply participating in a conversation about punctuation.
Can you possibly get over yourself?
That is an EXCEPTION, not the RULE. - Historian
[ In Reply To ..]That is not a valid link as there is no http://www.
Even if it were, is that info posted on Purdue University's home page? I think not.
Which begs the question, why did you not post a valid link to the appropriate page? Was it an attempt to mislead? I think it was. Readers can make up their own minds.
Obviously you have copied and pasted a portion out of context. Most likely it was in relation to the EXCEPTIONS to the rule. Yes there are some, but for the sake of brevity I posted the GENERAL rule (as did the OP).
To prove my point, all one has to do is search on the net, which yields a plethora of supportive links:
https://ssl.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/nbbwssl.cgi
Unlike you, I will include here copies and pastes of text supporting my (and the OP's) position. Below each excerpt one can find the direct link.
#1
Quotation Marks Table of Contents: Spacing With Punctuation Periods Ellipsis Marks Commas Semicolons Colons Question Marks Exclamation Points Quotation Marks Parentheses Apostrophes Hyphens Dashes Capitalization
Rule 1. Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.
Examples: The sign changed from "Walk," to "Don't Walk," to "Walk" again within 30 seconds.
She said, "Hurry up."
She said, "He said, 'Hurry up.'"
Rule 2. The placement of question marks with quotes follows logic. If a question is in quotation marks, the question mark should be placed inside the quotation marks.
Examples: She asked, "Will you still be my friend?"
Do you agree with the saying, "All's fair in love and war"?
Here the question is outside the quote.
NOTE: Only one ending punctuation mark is used with quotation marks. Also, the stronger punctuation mark wins. Therefore, no period after war is used.
Rule 3. When you have a question outside quoted material AND inside quoted material, use only one question mark and place it inside the
quotation mark.
Example: Did she say, "May I go?"
Rule 4. Use single quotation marks for quotes within quotes. Note that the period goes inside all quote marks.
Example: He said, "Danea said, 'Do not treat me that way.'"
Rule 5. Use quotation marks to set off a direct quotation only.
Examples: "When will you be here?" he asked.
He asked when you will be there.
Rule 6. Do not use quotation marks with quoted material that is more than three lines in length. See Colons, Rule 5, for style guidance with longer quotes.
Rule 7. When you are quoting something that has a spelling or grammar mistake or presents material in a confusing way, insert the term sic in italics and enclose it in brackets. Sic means, "This is the way the original
material was."
Example: She wrote, "I would rather die then [sic] be seen wearing the same outfit as my sister."
Should be than, not then.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp
#2
According to the American style, the commas and periods (or full stops) always go inside the quotation marks. For example:
So, the American rule is â always place the comma and the period inside the quotation marks.
In the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth countries where there is British influence, itâs different. Here instead of following a rule, logic is used. In other words, the placement of the comma or period depends on whether it belongs to the quotation or to the sentence that contains the quotation. For instance in the examples above, the first example remains as it is â
âSam,â he said, âyour dinnerâs on the table.â
This is because the comma after the Sam and the period after the table belong to the quote.
http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/punctuation-%E2%80%93-inside-or-outside-quotation-marks/
indeed, it is an exception -- that's what 'not always' means... - link for you
[ In Reply To ..]http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/577/03/
"Not always" wasn't in your post. - Historian
[ In Reply To ..]Here is a copy and paste of your post. As everyone can see, "Not always" -- or any other indicator of an exception -- did not appear within it.
quotation marks - sm
Posted: Nov 25th, 2011 - 3:20 pm In Reply to: That is correct. However, - Historian
Place colons and semicolons outside closed quotation marks.
Williams described the experiment as "a definitive step forward"; other scientists disagreed.
Benedetto emphasizes three elements of what she calls her "Olympic journey": family support, personal commitment, and great coaching.
(Purdue.edu)
Here is a copy and paste of the linked Purdue page. As everyone can see, "Not always" does not appear within it -- "except when" does. In addition, your link confirms what I, the OP, and the other links stated.
So you stand corrected. Will you concede? Not a chance. You're too narcissistic to do that. You prefer to lie, saying that you said things that you didn't say in a ridiculously transparent, lame attempt to have the last word.
Put commas and periods within quotation marks, except when a
parenthetical reference follows.
He said, "I may forget your name, but I never forget a face."
History is stained with blood spilled in the name of "civilization."
Mullen, criticizing the apparent inaction, writes, "Donahue's policy was to do nothing" (24).
Place colons and semicolons outside closed quotation marks.
Williams described the experiment as "a definitive step forward"; other scientists disagreed.
Benedetto emphasizes three elements of what she calls her "Olympic
journey": family support, personal commitment, and great coaching.
Place a question mark or exclamation point within closing quotation marks if the punctuation applies to the quotation itself. Place the punctuation outside the closing quotation marks if the punctuation applies to the whole sentence.
Phillip asked, "Do you need this book?"
I guess it's true - history does repeat itself - nm
[ In Reply To ..]
Dr. Vaknin is right. - Historian
[ In Reply To ..]Narcissists, who are full of malignant self-love, troll the Internet and will do ANYTHING to pretend to be "right." They are LIARS with ZERO integrity.
Take a good look in the mirror, Narcissa.
You repeated. - Marcie
[ In Reply To ..]Now you're claiming that you were in agreement with the OP and Historian all along. So what is your point? Why did you bother posting it if you were in agreement with the general rule?
You make no sense. That's because you're not being honest, just as Historian said.
Get a grip on your gripes - Anti-grammar cop
[ In Reply To ..]If this is the worst problem you ever face, you will not have much to worry about. Lighten up.
I feel sorry for you - shaking my head
[ In Reply To ..]If this is the zenith of your world today, I send many good thoughts your way that you should find peace within yourself.
"Have a" good day . . .
I was also thinking.... - MT
[ In Reply To ..]why one poster would be "shocked" and the other "stunned" over something like this.
I was thinking.... - Marcie
[ In Reply To ..]It is obvious that you are trying to stir up another catfight on this forum.
You are the instigator.
Excuse me, that was simply a factual observation.... - MT
[ In Reply To ..]and a bit silly to accuse me of being an "instigator" when that is my one and only response in this thread. Meanwhile, the OP, who took the time to post how "shocked" they are and how "shocking" and "scary" it is to see punctuation outside of quotation marks (and with a typo in the title no less) isn't?
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