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Anatomy and Physiology - Andrews Student

Posted: Apr 21, 2012

Hi all. First of all, wow- thank you so much for all of the great information in this section. I am a student at Andrews for medical coding and enjoying it so much. I'd like to supplement what I am already learning and go a little deeper into Anatomy and Physiology. My library has Great Courses DVDs that look promising. If you enjoyed a particular set of DVDs or a lecture available somewhere online, I'd love to know about it. It is extremely important to me to have an excellent foundation; the CCS certification that I am pursuing is not only so that I can work to help my family but for the volunteer work I am also hoping to be able to do with this knowledge of coding. Thanks so much!

Anatomy and Physiology - Coder

[ In Reply To ..]
I know it's not a DVD or lecture but I used an Anatomy Coloring Workbook to supplement my A&P classes. The Anatomy Coloring Book 3rd by Wynn Kapit is very
good. If you look on Google you can also find anatomy flash cards. I didn't use these but people seem to like them.
Enjoy your studies!

Suggestion - CCS, CPC, etc.

[ In Reply To ..]
I admire your interest in learning as much as you can about A&P. More is always better, but I want to put things into perspective for you. I want to share the perspective of someone who has been there, done that, understands what is required, and helps other people get there, too.

I know the "more" A&P that you want to explore, so I know if you will need it or not. I know ICD-10 and ICD-9 both, so I know what is required for them. I have also seen what Andrews teaches, so I know where that fits in.

First, Andrews teaches exactly what you need to know. Their students pass the CCS with just what they learn from the course. That includes students who had no prior knowledge of anatomy. They also have at least 2 former students who are AHIMA-approved ICD-10 Trainers, so that knowledge got them through that. I know that they also have at least one and maybe two ICD-10 Trainers on their staff so they would know what you needed. Andrews has always made sure students have what they need-that is what they are known for.

Second, you sound as though you are early in the course. You might no be aware that what you are learning now is not "all of it." They also teach pathophysiology. What most students do not realize is that pathophysiology is where you learn what you need for coding. You learn the anatomy and the rest of it in pathophysiology. You do not just ned a lot of rote details about body parts for coding ... you need the relevant information about how diseases work. Relevant being key ... you do not need all of it. You will get tha information in your course.

Third, You are undoubtedly hearing about the importance of AP in coding and especially the increased knowledge required for ICD-10. You do not know where it is coming from, though. To you, it might seem that it means you need more than what Andrews teaches. You might have seen the post below that says universities have better anatomy courses. Andrews uses the same materials universities use, so you are not losing out. You are, in fact, getting MORE than a lot of college programs are teaching.

There is a lot of hysteria now about how much more coders will need for ICD-10. The mistake employers and educators are making is in assumig that what is needed is contained in college anatomy courses. Wrong. It is contained in pathophysiology courses. For ICD-10-PCS, the procedure codes, the information is very specific and usually is not found in college courses. It is in medical and surgical anatomy courses, which you do not have time to take. Books are being written just on that material and I do not believe anyone yet offers a decent course in it, nor will they need to for another year or two.

What does this mean for you? Just that you should trust that you are getting what you need. You should devote your efforts to learning that material thoroughly. Do not let "grass is greener" thinking cause you to waste your time. Do not let uninformed hysteria cause you to mistrust the experts who laid the path you should follow.

If you hear about the need for university anatomy from students at a university, remember that those schools do not teach anything better than you already have. Keep in mind that a lot of their hysteria is based on the frustration university programs have in graduating students who can pass a certification exam--they have about a 40% pass rate and they are grasping at straws to explain why. They think if they blame the AP, some miracle will happen.

Keep ths in perspective. Nobody hires anatomists or physiologists or medical terminologists to do coding. They hire people who are experts in CODING. Certification exams are not exams in anatomy or physiology or medical terminology. They are exams in CODING. You need to know A, P, and med terms, but you need to know 100 times more CODING.

And, if you are planning on studying all this extra A and P to help with your future job and cert exams . . . just how are you going to know WHAT you need to know??? If you have not taken that exam OR the course, how will you know????

What I know, having been there, is that you are diverting your attention from what is truly important. You can be the Einstein of anatomy and flunk a coding exam because you do not know the coding guidelines. Studying extraneous anatomy is not only misguided, but a huge time-sucker. You WILL end up unable to complete that course because of it. And your knowledge of all that A will not help anyone whether you finish or not.

What is truly important is for you to devote most of your attention to the CODING. Right now you might not see the detail in it that you need to know, but it is there and you need to find it.
I recommend that you defer your interest in anatomy until AFTER you have passed at least the CPC and CCS exams. Just trust that you will have enough if you learn what is already onyour plate.

Anatomy and Physiology - Andrews Student

[ In Reply To ..]
Thank you both so much for responding. I truly appreciate your perspective and the time you took to respond. I really like the program at Andrews and yes, I am very early in the course (2nd coding exam). I agree that there is great power in focus. For me, it helps to think about new material from different directions. The Great Courses DVD on Anatomy and Physiology is a series of lectures, that's all. There appears to be a one hour lecture on the Respiratory System, the Digestive System, etc. I don't want to become distracted, but I am also hesitant to push through everything too fast. I want those complex neural pathways to develop in my brain because I need all of this information to stick around- ha! Thanks again for your helpful and thoughtful answers.

Well, ok then there would be value in that - CCS, CPC

[ In Reply To ..]
Just wanted to be sure you didn't think something was "missing." Complex neural pathways are a worthy cause . . . worries about being unprepared are not.

Let us know how you like the lectures.

I bought those DVDs you are talking about - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I was thinking the same thing you were. Most of the Great Courses DVDs are excellent in other subjects, so I thought the ones on A&P would be helpful to me. They weren't helpful to me at all, but they sure took up a lot of time going over material that I've never needed. I can't tell you how boring they were to me. I don't enjoy talking head videos much anyway, but I just couldn't get into these at all. However, I love their other topics and have a whole library of them. The one on A&P? Save your money and your time.

Let me correct what I just said - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Let me correct what I said about saving your money and your time by not buying the Great Course DVDs on A&P. You may enjoy them. I just couldn't force myself to get through them. I found other things, like my textbook work and assignments to be more interesting, and I could make them move along at my own speed instead having to listen to someone drone on and on and on. You may love them though.

I'm an Andrews student also - Squarepeg

[ In Reply To ..]
And I'm finding that the illustrations in the Med Term book are not very good. They don't really help me learn what's going on, so I've been googling some things and finding way better illustrations and pictures that help me to understand. I'm at the same point you are in the course, just turned in my second exam.

Illustrations - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
It is a med terms textbook, not medical school anatomy text. Even if it was a med school anatomy text, you would still find the illustrations not to your liking.

The book you are using is one of the best available. It is perfectly fine to supplement your studies with online material.

Think about it, though. If the internet were not available, what would you do? Ten or fifteen years ago, you would have had to learn from that book. The amount you get IN the book is what you need to learn from it.

It might be that you are trying to learn too much right now. Probably, you only need to learn what is in the textbook, not what a surgeon would know. MTs especially seem to overdo it on the med terms.

Supplement your learning, but don't feel it is a problem with the book. Also be aware that some courses would have covered this in one chapter or given you a 20 page booklet because they feel med terms is a very minor part of the job. You are studying to be a coder, not a medical terminologist.

Or... - Anonymous

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Maybe there really is a problem with the textbook. Just because it's offered by Andrews doesn't mean it's the definitive answer to everyone's needs,

Anatomy and Physiology - Andrews Student

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I doubt that. It's well known and used for many programs/degrees. I am not an MT and that's who I will be competing with for jobs. I have to know this stuff like the back of my hand. I'm not worried about the text. I'm challenging myself to *own* the information that Andrews is asking me to learn, so that I can be an awesome graduate. I like lectures and I'm used to learning that way, so I just thought I'd watch a couple from the library or youtube. Back to studying. See you on the boards Squarepeg! :)

Just some reassurance . . . - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
While you will want to know your stuff, you do not want to be concerned about non-issues and misconceptions.

Because most people here are MTs, you may have the idea that there will be lots and lots of MTs competing with you for jobs. That is not the case. HERE you see a lot of them, but the actual number nationally is very small. I would not be surprised if you never ran into an MT-to-coder in real life.

You will be competing against coders, both certified and uncertified, experienced and nonexperienced. And, there is an extreme shortage of coders, so you might not be competing against very many.

As we have said before, the key to gaining an advantage is going to be certification. A CPC helps and a CCS helps a lot.

You also seemed to think that MTs have an extensive knowledge of A&P. That is not necessarily true. What they have is a knowledge of medical terminology and that knowledge varies quite a bit. Some MTs are quite expert at it while others are not. Some recognize words enough to type them. Fewer know what the words mean and fewer still understand what is going on behind the words. They may be successful MTs, all of them.

I mention that to put things into perspective. You do not want to be trying to meet standards that are unrealistic or competing with imagined foes. That would be discouraging and futile.

Some OJT-trained coders have none of the basic sciences at all. Of school-trained coders, some have only med terms and that might have consisted of a list of word parts and some examples taking up ten pages in a workbook. Few have actual anatomy and fewer still have pathophysiology. Even less than that have pharmacology.

Anatomy and Physiology - Andrews Student

[ In Reply To ..]
Hey Squarepeg! :) I'm working up the courage to do the same. I just want to check everything one more time. Last year I took our trash to the dumpster just as someone was walking away from a gigantic box sitting next to it. It was open and I found an enormous stash of current medical textbooks. Crazy, right? Never saw that neighbor again and I have no idea where he lived. One of them is a Dorland's dictionary and it's great.

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