A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

Shocked - Leaving MT

Posted: Jun 30, 2013

I was curious, so I just looked at the program for medical transcription on Kaplan's website to see what it was about. I was actually curious if they said anything about one being certified upon program completion. Oh my goodness - the program is an associate's degree program, 90 credit hours, at $371 per credit hour. The total cost of the program is $33, 390. That is criminal. Simply criminal. I guess the cost is so high because Kaplan is a private university, but I went to a private school (not a university, just a transcription school) and paid less than 1/6 of that, and I still get great support regarding job leads to this very day. Goodness, one could get a legitimate 4-year degree from a state university for that. I sure hope some of those core classes can be transferred to a different program. As a matter of fact, the surgical technology program I am currently finishing up at my local technical college is costing me about 1/4 of that, and I will have good job placement support from that institution as well. Wow - $33,390 to learn how to do a job that is dying fast and disappearing to technology and offshore and if one is lucky pays $10 to $15 an hour. That is nothing short of criminal.

No, not because it is private - Explanation

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It is because it is a diploma mill. Tuition is set to soak up as much as the Pell Grant and guaranteed student loan market will bear. That is also why an MT program gets inflated to 2 years.

No, the courses will probably not transfer to a real college or university.

Explanation - Old Pro

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Anyone who goes to Kaplan should ask them who does their accreditation. For example, UCLA and other colleges and universities in California are accredited by WASC. Different accrediting bodies cover different parts of the country. What happens if someone who has spent 33K at Kaplan decides they would much rather be an engineer and tries to transfer some of those "credits" from their associate degree to, say MIT? Will the credits be accepted?

Private, for-profit diploma mills - Leaving MT

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Well, I thought Kaplan was along the lines of University of Phoenix; is that institution a diploma mill as well? Does that mean the students are issued sort of "fake" diplomas that are not recognized as legitimate? I cannot believe that these institutions qualify for government money, especially for training in something like MT at $371 a credit hour. I really want to write to someone in government about it, but who?

The University of Phoenix - is definitely

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a diploma mill. Degrees from that school are generally viewed with contempt in professions that require advanced degrees or any kind of real training.

No the University of Phoenix is "definitely not" a diploma mill - Old Pro

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The University of Phoenix is accredited. Here is your information:

http://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/accreditation.html

I have nothing to do with the University of Phoenix, other than to be aware that it exists. I do feel strongly that professional integrity requires that we fact-check before making such statements as something is "definitely a diploma mill," when in fact, the institution is accredited. I personally would not go to the University of Phoenix, as I prefer a traditional campus setting. But to state that an institution is "definitely a diploma mill" when it has, in fact, achieved accredition, is not only inaccurate; it is just plain wrong. I would expect higher standards from MTs. Fact-checking is an important part of being a good MT.

Accreditation - Leaving MT

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From looking at the University of Phoenix and Kaplan websites, it looks like they are both accredited by the Higher Learning Commission. I know that most colleges have program level accreditations as well as institutional level; however, M-TEC was not accredited (the school I went to for MT). When I was trying to decide on where to get my MT training, the first place I went to was the professional association for information, which at that time was AAMT. It was purely by accident one day that I learned that there are really only two or three MT schools (now only one or two) that have any name recognition in the MTSO community and that provide quality MT training, and that was because I discovered MT Chat. Had I not discovered MT Chat, I might have forgone both M-TEC and Andrews because neither of those schools is accredited, at least in the formal sense that I was looking for at the time. I guess my point is that Kaplan is right there on the AHDI website as an approved program along with Andrews and M-TEC, and Kaplan is formally accredited. I think it is very confusing for people.

My understanding of the term "diploma mill" is that it is an institution where one can obtain a diploma for a fee with very little instruction of substance, and that diploma mills are often accredited by "accreditation mills."

I worked in academia and in - nonprofit organizations

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that hired PhDs. Every application with a degree from the University of Phoenix went straight into the shredder. Their curriculum does not train to a sufficient level of competence. They may be "accredited" but they have no credibility with employers with jobs that require a high level of intellectual rigor. There are your facts--evidence from real life.

There are your facts - Old Pro

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From one person. No statistics, no hard data, just willingness to generalize. This doesn't work.

University of Phoenix - Charmed

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My sister is a graduate advisor for one of the University of California schools (like UCLA, Berkeley, etc.). She tells me that the UC schools won't look at University of Phoenix graduates for admission to their Masters or Ph.D. programs. Same as shredder comment above, their applications aren't even read.

Also, my boss got her bachelors in Health Information Technology at Univ of Phoenix, but she's not able to sit for the RHIA credential exam. She did, however, get a great job out of her degree.

It really depends on what you want to do, but if you want to continue in ACADEMICS, probably stay away from Phoenix. For many jobs, it will suffice just fine. But ask yourself if the earning potential of the job justifies the $$$ for the degree.

Right, not an AHIMA-accredited HIM program - sm

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The Univ of Phoenix HIM and HIT programs are not accredited by AHIMA. Their students can never take the RHIT or RHIA exams.

Sadly, a lot of their students think they are accredited because Phoenix College -- which is a legitimate college located in Phoenix, Arizona, and which is not affiliated with the Univ of Phoenix, does have a CAHIIM-accredited program.

Univ of Phoenix had a booth set up outside my hospital's cafeteria one day. They were promoting nursing and HIM programs. When we asked about their AHIMA accreditation, their reps whipped out a printout of the AHIMA page for Phoenix College. It was blatant misrepresentation.

And how did you reach your erroneous conclusion? - xxx

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Have you done random samplings of a large enough data group to come to this conclusion? Have you ever taken statistics? Do you even know how much background evidence you would need to credibly make such a statement? "Generally viewed?"--by whom and on what basis. This sounds like something from the National Enquirer or a paper of that ilk. Please, please, please, check your facts before spewing forth this kind of (mis)information.

I reached my conclusion on the basis - of the experience

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of watching hiring managers and department heads toss resumes and applications from candidates with degrees from the University of Phoenix into the shredder. They were simply not competitive with applicants with degrees from other schools.

Conclusions - Old Pro

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That may well be the case, but for people to make such sweeping generalizations (about any institution) is not academically or statistically sound. Sorry, but I need some hard data, not opinions. And for the record, no I would not go to the University of Phoenix, but neither would I make broad generalizations without statistics to back what I said up. As the late Senator Daniel Moynihan famously said, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." Please think about what he was trying to say--and why.

Than you for sharing - your opinions

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I do not require scolding from you. I am not interested in your opinion and do not need your advice. I had the benefit of the opinions of respected academics with regard to the school you are so passionately defending. Their opinions were formed on the basis of their considerable knowledge and expertise in their fields as well as their knowledge of appropriate university curricula. They knew what they were talking about with regard to the University of Phoenix. With all due respect, you do not.

How many employers? - anon

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That's great that you have anecdotal evidence; however, there are more employers than just your one. That is why statistical data is so important. Yes, the place where you worked may have dumped UofPhoneix resumes, but that doesn't mean that all employers do so.

I have my own anecdotal evidence to disprove your point... my former employer not only hired UofP grades, but also reimbursed employees their tuition costs if they were attending while employed. I have many friends/former colleagues who went through that school and they are all gainfully employed.

anon - Old Pro

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Ah, a voice of reason and logic. Thank you.

Why the hostility? - Old Pro

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With all due respect, you do not know me or too much about me. You sound rather threatened when someone expresses an opinion that is different from your own. Generally the emotion that underlies hostility is fear. Why? Why are you threatened by differing opinions? Your overreaction is quite stunning. Please, allow others their opinions just as we allow you yours. Peace out.

Hostility, indeed - Nick

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Wow, Old Pro, that woman sounds like she is having a bad day. To call it an "overreaction" is not nearly strong enough. I myself know several people who are successful in careers and are University of Phoenix grads. In addition to what you said about overreaction (amazing in itself), I wonder WHY this poster is so invested in making the University of Phoenix wrong? There are several law schools I considered and decided were not right for me. Do I need to bash them? No, they may be right for someone else. I am not threatened that someone chose the U of Chicago and I chose somewhere else. So what? Isn't the world big enough for all of us? So what if some people want the U of Phoenix? It would not be my choice, either, but I am not about to give others a hard time if it works for them. Whatever happened to live and let live? Goodness, golly, some of us are TOUCHY.

Diploma mill - sm

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While the University of Phoenix, Kaplan, and a long list of others might not fit the exact definition of a diploma mill, they fit the general concept. They are for-profit organizations that basically exist to soak up federal financial aid funds. Student loan mills, in other words.

UP is owned by the Apollo Group. It is their largest enterprise. It has an astonishingly high student loan default rate of 26%. After 3 years, more than 1/4 of their students are unable to pay back their loans. It has thus been under the gun from the feds and is losing so much enrollment that it is closing campuses. Now, its accreditation is in question.

That type of for-profit school is characterized by high cost and a willingness to admit anyone and keep them enrolled as long as their financial aid holds out. They cater to students who cannot get into regular universities and they keep them enrolled with passing grades. The faculty do not publish or do research, and they often hold degrees from the same or other for-profits or diploma mills.

In other words, they aren't academic institutions, but business ventures.

Degrees from schools like that are not well-respected. You might get hired with one, but probably only by employers who went there themselves. If you are anticipating a job in healthcare, a for-profit is not advisable because too many people in healthcare won't accept the degree. It just has a taint to it.

In the past, diploma mills accredited themselves by forming accreditation mills. They basically accredited themselves because the regional accreditation organizations that accredit academic universities would not. Now, some schools like UP and DeVry have managed to get regional accreditation. That is the accreditation that UP may lose.

Even though they may have that accreditation, academic universities may not accept the credits. No university is obligated to accept any credits, but they typically decline credits from for-profits. They are also not going to accept a degree from one of them if you want to do a higher degree. Once you are in the for-profit system, you have to stay in it or start over. Unfortunately, once you have used up your aid eligibility on 2 years in a diploma mill, you can't afford to continue, much less start over.

Nice explanation - Leaving MT

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Here are some statistics about for-profit schools that are troubling: Ninety-six percent of for-profit students use federal aid or federal loans. The default rate for these federal loans is 20% within three years of students starting to repay their loans. Students who attended for-profit colleges account for close to half of all federal student loan defaults.

From "The Case Against For-Profit Colleges and Universities" by Emily Hanford; American Public Media.

Leaving MT - Old Pro

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Yes, it IS criminal. That is why each person must investigate and do some thorough research before tossing their money away. When I was hiring, I was not looking for people with associate's degrees with some minor in MT (not sure what a "minor" in MT means after all)--I was looking for people who could really transcribe and for whom transcription was more than just a minor or a sideline. I insisted that they be trained on the SUM program. People can get the proper education including all of that at Andrews (and formerly at M-TEC, too) and I would have complete confidence in recommending someone from Andrews or M-TEC for hire. Kaplan--not so much.

Old Pro - maybe you know - Leo

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Not a newbie myself but took my MT course through distance learning course from ROS out of Kearney, MO back in 2000. I really liked them, think they were fairly highly respected back then, used to put out MT Monthly. They used SUM, were so great and always available. I think she had someone, who I think is still around and fairly well known in MT in CA, proof/grade some of my work. Got a letter of rec when finished, although the first company I tested with I failed by 1 point (more stupid mistakes on my part since I was so nervous testing that first time), I was able to convince MQ back then (I think at that time they wanted 2 years exp.) to let me test with that and my lab background, ended up working for them quite awhile, was great when still the smaller local offices and everyone knew everyone else. Anywhoo...thought maybe you had heard of ROS School and what happened to them, since it sounds like you are very familiar with the biz. Back then at the time, I thought they were pretty great, used SUM, always available for help, pretty reasonable cost, and other than failing my first job testing by 1 point, I have since never had an issue. I also loved the SUM program, actually took some advanced modules on my own while I was job hunting.

Hi, Leo - Old Pro

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Alas, I don't know the company you mention. California is such a huge state and there are tons of MT companies and schools. I have not heard of the ROS school. Unless they were affiliated with the University of California system, I likely would not know them. But if they used SUM, they were surely on the right track! As to failing your first test by 1 point, don't worry about it!:)- It happens. I hope all is going well for you at this point in time! Take care.

My local CC has an on-line only MT program. It is about 18 - me

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months long and costs just under $1500. I don't know anything about the program, but I suspect it is a program created by someone else that perhaps the college pays a fee to use or the company gives the school a percentage of tuition. I'm not sure what the accreditation is.

I'm currently taking some classes at the CC to retrain. Total cost of the program is approximately $8000, which includes books, tuition, uniforms, equipment, etc. For profit schools such as ECPI and Brookstone have the same program that costs $35,000. The accreditation that they offer is not accepted by our hospital system or most clinics, so while investigating you also need to look at specific accreditations.

How can any school still take money for MT? - MT

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How and why are there still all these schools still taking a ton of money from people promising a good career being an MT? I still see the joke of "work from home and make $40,000". I almost feel like vomiting myself with sympathy for all who are throwing good money away on this scam. I can't wait until my last day as an MT!!! I will be throwing a 2 kegger out back to celebrate!! Starting a new career!!!

Schools making money from MT - Realistic

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I don't know the answer to your question, but everyone's beloved Andrews School is still doing it, so does another one whose name starts with the letter C. As far as for profit schools, many colleges and universities (most of them, actually) are "for profit," which is why they charge people tuition and have sports teams. Not being able to repay student loans is not unique to UP and Kaplan, people from prestigious colleges default on their loans all the time, regardless of whether or not they are employed.

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