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avoiding ageism - please see message
Posted: May 11, 2014
Can you avoid ageism by changing your DOB on job applications? I need to change jobs and do not want my age getting in the way of getting a new job. TIA!
NO - see message - Anon
[ In Reply To ..]That is intentional fraud. You're setting yourself up for termination. I'm in the same situation as you. A job will eventually come along. It may not be your dream job, but it's your first step out of MT (if that's your goal).
Thanks, but too old to escape MT - and will have to take risk of termination. n.m.
[ In Reply To ..].
That is the attitude that justifies - termination.
[ In Reply To ..]It is self-defeating, negative, dishonest, and communicates that the interests of your employer are not your concern. The problem is the dysfunctional behavior, not the age.
WOW - your problem is...s.m.
[ In Reply To ..]where to start?? I need a check to pay my bills, have been lied to repeatedly by MT companies, and I am all the above?? Just trying to stay off the street, sorry about that.
Wow - and your problem is - sm
[ In Reply To ..]You are intentionally committing a crime. You could potentially go to jail.
Having worked in HR here's what happens. You knowingly commit this crime you won't even be there long enough to collect your first paycheck. All places do background checks. They WILL find out and you WILL be terminated. Not only that but it will prevent you from getting any further jobs ANYWHERE! No place will hire a felon. Yes, that's right. A person who commits a crime is a felon. Nobody will feel bad for you.
Here's my suggestion. Before committing this crime, borrow the money, do whatever you can. Sell some of your possessions. Do pet sitting, walk dogs, walk the streets and pick up any cans that you can to turn in to cash. Hold a yard sale and sell some of your belongings. Do without cable TV, call your bill payers and work out something with them. Borrow from family or friends.
Guarantee you do this and you will not even collect the first paycheck because this will come out before the hiring process. Once word comes out that you knowingly lied on an application NO other place will hire you.
By the way, I'm a different poster than the one you replied to.
I think what you are doing STINKS! Yeah, ageism, I know about it I'm going through it. It sucks but it's not worth committing a crime for.
Falsifying a DOB on a job application - is
[ In Reply To ..]not actually a felony. It is true that it would likely result in a speedy termination, but nobody's going to jail.
Lying about one's age isn't a crime. Women - have been doing it for centuries.
[ In Reply To ..],,
Not on an official document where you sign - and you can be presecuted
[ In Reply To ..]Here's a small excerpt from just the first article I read. Plus working in the HR field, yes we had people lie, yes they were terminated and yes they were possibly looking at going to court.
"And although it doesn̢۪t happen often, you can even be prosecuted for misrepresenting yourself. This would typically happen if it wasn̢۪t discovered until after you started the job and it caused harm to the company."
http://www.careerealism.com/lie-job-application/
My advice is do NOT knowingly falsify information. Leave it off if anything, but by knowingly putting down false information and then signing that it's truthful is a crime.
Why would a company that purportedly doesn't - age-discriminate even care - sm
[ In Reply To ..]if someone changed their age on a work application? Especially if they are doing well at their job? One would think an employer has much bigger fish to fry than whether a worker is the age they say they are or not.
I lie is a lie. If you are going to lie about one thing - sm
[ In Reply To ..]what else are you going to lie about? Your experience? Your past criminal history? (that is aside from the new criminal history you just did by lying on an application and signing your name saying you verify what you wrote is the truth.
I'm not an MTSO, employer or anything, but if I was I would fire that person faster than they can imagine. I would also take them to court because of their lies have just cost me money and time in doing the hiring process of them, background checks, drug testing (if applicable). Not to mention having to call back the other applicants and now offer them the job I first told them they couldn't have because someone thought they would try and pull one over by lying on her application.
There is more to it than just a little white lie. A person is knowingly committing a crime by falsifying information on a legal document then signing it stating that everything is true. All places do background checks and they will find out. Most likely that person will never even see a first paycheck before being terminated (and rightly so).
Yeah, times are tough, yeah ageism STINKS! There are other ways than knowingly submitting false information. My advice is its not worth the hassle (and now add on more money they owe if the employer takes her to court).
Listen to you, aren't you full of...yourself for lack of a better word. - and I thing you stink. sue me NM
[ In Reply To ..]They cannot discriminate on basis of age. period. And she cannot be sued.
ah
I never said they could discriminate on age - You are the one full of yourself
[ In Reply To ..]I never once said anything about anyone discriminating. That is not the issue I was discussing. No, an employee cannot discriminate on the basis of age, but guess what. They do it. Yeah, it stinks. I know cos I'm going through it with my DH. But at least he has the common courtesy and the right mind not to LIE on a job application.
I never said that she could be sued, I believe what I said was that if I was an employer and someone lied on a job application I would take her to court to get reimbursed for all the costs I just went through because someone knowingly LIED on an application.
What I spoke of was directly only of the fraud she wants to commit on an official document. Everywhere I am reading they say don't do it. I can't believe all the posters who are in support of her lying.
Yeah ageism stinks. Period! There is a better way than knowingly committing a crime.
asking age on an application or even in an interview makes it a - discriminating issue and since
[ In Reply To ..]they cannot discriminate on basis of age, no matter age you say, they cannot sue you for it as it was illegal in the first place to ask BEFORE hired. Once hired you HAVE to supply your age for various HR paperwork and identity checks, etc.
And it is also true, on the other hand, that if you lie about your age and, say, get the job - and down the line they pull the age card, for example, passing you up on job promotions for those younger, you cannot sue the company because you lied to begin with.
I just find your statement that they can sue someone for lying about their age ridiculous. First off, it would cost too much, what company in their right mind would bother? and it's simply NOT job-related unless you are applying for Playboy Bunny. But all the job-related/performance qualifications on an application or resume to include experience, past positions, educational degrees, that's another story.
Now, don't I come off like a know-it-all? You can keep talking, I'm outa here.
Once again - I never said someone can be sued - I posted articles and yeah,
[ In Reply To ..]You do come off like a know-it-all.
You could just leave it off. sm - Feather Tuscadero
[ In Reply To ..]Your DOB is only needed once you're hired. I know some online apps won't submit unless every box is filled in, but take notice if that's one of the not-required boxes.
I have applied with temp agencies before and told them I'm not putting my SSN on the app, that I will supply it if and when I'm hired, and they've never had a problem with that.
Two Things - One to Feather; One to OP
[ In Reply To ..]Feather: You can't always leave off a DOB on an electronic application. It's often a required field.
To OP: It would be dumb to use a fake DOB. If you get hired, they will find out when it comes time to give your SS# and all that, and you will look like a liar.
I really wouldn't worry about being "too old" unless they're looking for a young whipper-snapper in corporate or something. A lot of us "oldsters" have a good work ethic and they are happy to have us.
I left MT over 2 yrs ago, and my age has not stood in the way of being gainfully employed.
suggestion - NotNewMT
[ In Reply To ..]Try inserting 00/00/0000 if you cannot skip the DOB on an on-line application. DOB and SS number legally should not be requested until after a person is hired.
Ageism - to the OP
[ In Reply To ..]Employers are not prohibited from asking your age, they are prohibited from using it in the employment selection process, and may only legally use it for employment screening for background checks, which everybody is doing these days for obvious reasons. See EEOC and Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA). I understand how you feel about being asked something that has no bearing on the work you will be doing. I'm almost 58 and am in the process of trying to get out of MT. If you are going to be doing MT work online, nobody really cares about your age, they care more about how much work you might crank out and how little you will be willing to work for. If it is not for MT work, most of your prospective employers are going to be more interested in why you are changing jobs and what your references say about you and the type of employee you are rather than your age. I don't like it either, but if it is what is standing between me and the job that I need, I am going to bite that bullet and see how things turn out. You may be surprised to find that there are still employers who value the stability that age brings in an employee.
no they can't - Aaron
[ In Reply To ..]It is illegal for an employer to ask your age on the application form or at the interview. Naturally, once you get hired, you have to put your DOB on the Human Resources' documentation, but by then it is too late for them; they have hired you. If you are asked your age at an interview or application form, just answer "I am between old enough to bring the needed experience to this job".
Ageism may be prohibited, but employers do - it every day of the week. - sm
[ In Reply To ..]It's nearly impossible to prove too, because if pressed, they always find another "excuse".
Ageism is rampant. Ask just about any 55+ person who is looking for work in any field.
Ageism - Aaron
[ In Reply To ..]It is not legal for an MTSO to even ask your age. It is none of their business.
Ageism - Toni
[ In Reply To ..]As a small MTSO owner, I've never asked a person's age on a resume. In fact, that's the last thing I look for. That being said, if I find on an application that the person lied to me about experience or whatever, that person is gone like yesterday. If you lie about something like age or whatever on an application, makes the person hiring you wonder what else you're lying about.
ageism - G.C.
[ In Reply To ..]In the field of MT especially, I don't feel that age is a factor, it is whether or not you are qualified for the job and the older you are, the more experience you may have. If you pass their tests, I don't think they should care how old you are.
If an employer doesn't want people to lie on - their applications, they should make it - sm
[ In Reply To ..]less necessary to do so.
Take, for example, the B.A. degree. If I were applying for a high-tech job where that degree was truly needed, that's one thing. But when I'm applying for a clerical job that I already know I have more than enough skill to be able to do well, and the only thing standing between me and that job is a stupid piece of paper, then yes, I might just claim that I have one. Best case scenario? I'm a good fit for the job, and everyone's happy. Worst case scenario? They check, find out I don't have it, and fire me. Being fired - BFD! It's already happened to most of us - many multiple times. It's not the end of the world, you just try again. And even if you were employed for a while before being fired, you're at least a paycheck or more ahead of where you were before.
The only person who calls a degree a "stupid piece of paper" - is the person who does not have one.
[ In Reply To ..]Unbelievable.
the mindset of some posters here - blows my mind
[ In Reply To ..]Wow, just wow....
Most of us have been fired and many of us multiple times?? WTF? Then again, if you are someone who is okay with lying about a degree you don't have I can see why this might be your experience.
I have never been fired, ever. No one in my family has ever been fired. I would be embarrassed and ashamed if I got fired even once, never mind multiple times.
Posts like this make me see why some on here are perpetually whining about how they can't get new jobs. It's no wonder if you are okay with lying or have been fired multiple times.
So if you have a B.A., and think it's so great, - why are you still a transcriptionist?
[ In Reply To ..]?
Because my great schedule allowed me to finish my Master's degree. - Shocking, I know
[ In Reply To ..]Also because I'm good at it and have a job with respectable pay, benefits, and people I enjoy working with.
I now do MT part-time and freelance in my other area of expertise.
A Master's degree, and you STILL do MT? - Shouldnt a Masters land you -
[ In Reply To ..]the type of job where you're earning six figures? I wouldn't want to cheapen the degree by doing MT even as a hobby.
You are assuming. She never said she is currently - working as an MT
[ In Reply To ..]Maybe she does have a great job that pays a lot. Maybe she doesn't do MT work anymore. Maybe she does MT part time.
It's Ilegal to ask your age - discrimination - anon
[ In Reply To ..]On a job application. Look up some stuff or call an employment lawyer or discrimination lawyer.
All they need is your SS#. So that's another - thing not to give them until hired. nm.
[ In Reply To ..]X
it is double illegal to ask for SSN unless hired. why on earth - would anyone provide it up front - here
[ In Reply To ..]take my life and sell it to the highest paying identity thief!
Do not falsify any form that asks for your DOB - that will get you not hired for sure n/m
[ In Reply To ..]X
ARTICLE ABOUT THIS VERY SUBJECT - for what its worth
[ In Reply To ..]READ IT
Info from HR Expert included. Technically - they are not supposed to ask for either dob or ssn on an application - reality is, there's no control over it with electronic applications online...just read.
To the OP - Now that
[ In Reply To ..]your fellow MTs have checked in, you have been told that it is illegal to ask, but cannot avoid answering in many online applications in order to complete the application. It has been suggested that you lie on your application because that will at least get you the job and probably two paychecks before your falsification is discovered and you may or may not be fired for it, possibly losing a job that you really want to keep. If that is not enough, if you need a degree, go ahead and lie about that, too. You never said whether the applications in which you would be required to disclose your age were in the MT field, but I am concluding that in all probability they are not, because I myself have filled out more than 50 applications to MTSOs just this year, and was not once required to disclose my age. You have been given some good advice here, but in my own estimation, most of the advice has been bad. Lying on an application when they have everything else that would soon turn up the lie is just bad advice. Once discovered, if your employer chooses to retain you as an employee, you risk never being trusted and will have forever lost any credibility you once had.
Did your fellow MTs here provide you with the kind information and support you were looking for?
So not only do we have to worry about ageism, we now also have to worry - about people like yourself
[ In Reply To ..]Who thinks it's okay to lie to get a job. There are a lot of us here too who are having a hard time. Many of us have kids and family to feed, bills to meet, sleepless night worried how we're going to make it, so now we get to add another worry. That there are people out there, who may be less qualified than we are, but who are willing to lie and not think anything of it to get what they want. They may lie about their age (which will eventually be found out and they will be terminated most likely as they are not trustworthy), but what else will they lie about? Their experience?
I guess I just expect more from people. Knowing that you would do this gives MTs a bad name. We are working with sensitive information. What else are you going to lie about? That you will keep the information to yourself?
Besides, a couple of things to think about while you are writing down your lie. First, how many years younger do you plan on making yourself. I don't know how old you are, but I hear ageism is even hitting people in their 30s. Are you going to drop back your age 20 or 30 years. Second, if this is for an in-house position where you will have a face to face interview don't you think they'll look at you, look at what you wrote for your birth date and start to wonder. And then what are you going to use for an excuse as to why you lied.
Another issue about lying is the ethical issue. You will never be trusted even if you are hired and they keep you.
In an article there is a statement that sums it up - "Lying on a job application is dishonest and disrespectful to prospective employers and co-workers."
All of us are having a tough time. I urge you to please don't do something that can ruin your future. I'm also ashamed at the people who responded encouraging this type of behavior.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6880373_ethical-issues-lying-job-applications.html
If it'll get my foot in the door, and food on the - table, yes I will lie. In a heartbeat.
[ In Reply To ..].
you can choose to worry or just don't - and thats teh thing about agism. s/m
[ In Reply To ..]Thy sky is NOT falling until you convince yourself otherwise.
what character assassination goes on here - OP
[ In Reply To ..]I am a highly ethical person who asked a simple question in an attempt to avoid joblessness. Thanks for those who understood that. Amazed at the rest of you.
OP - if you were highly ethical
[ In Reply To ..]you wouldn't have been asking if it's okay to lie on a job application.
I'm amazed at you and the others who think it's okay to do this!!
Let it go....let it goooooo - Frozen
[ In Reply To ..]it's been beat to death
No, if we have something to say we will - dont read, donnnnnnnt reeeeeead
[ In Reply To ..]If you don't like what we have to say don't read it.
And you'll say it, and say it, and say it and say it - Ad Nauseam
[ In Reply To ..]nmsg
Yes. It's like when my children do something wrong. They need to be told - over and over and over
[ In Reply To ..]That what they are doing is wrong. Fortunately my children learn faster than some adults.
MTSOs lie to us every single day. I just - isnt that big a deal. They dont care.
[ In Reply To ..].
No, you are not a highly ethical person if you are planning - to lie on a job application
[ In Reply To ..]That would be like a bank robber saying they are ethical.
You mean, thanks to all those who agreed with my wrong doings and blank anyone who gets in my way. It doesn't matter that it's wrong, just thank you for supporting me.
I'm amazed that you even consider yourself ethical and amazed at the rest of you who supported and encouraged her to lie.
Wherever you end up if you lie on your application I hope they find out and you get fired.
Besides, in your first message you said you have a job. So you are no victim.
Wow, I love this post! - Lets see how long we can keep
[ In Reply To ..]it going
We;ll keep it going as long as we want to - for the highly unethical OP
[ In Reply To ..]nm
wasn't that the point? because it if wasn't - it is now, and redundant. NM
[ In Reply To ..],
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