A community of 30,000 US Transcriptionist serving Medical Transcription Industry

IC STATUS TIME FOR SOME CHANGES PEOPLE - tapin

Posted: Nov 02, 2010

Most of us work as IC status. PEOPLE we need to get some type of protection. what would happen to you tmr if your contract was terminated? You cannot get unemployment... these companies are making a killing off not having to pay into social security benefits, unemployment or workmans comp....

time to stand up as a work force I am willing to lead this however possible I need to know what are the steps to get this rolling.

we need to get these companies mandated to pay taxes, benefits and stop allowing them to take advantage of our vulnerable status as needing a job and afraid to do anything about it.

any suggestions? lets hear them

IC status - MT

[ In Reply To ..]
Simple really. No one should accept an IC position. The choice belongs the person who is seeking employment. I don't see that happening though. Many professions have IC status and they also do not get unemployment and must deal with their own taxes, etc. And no, MT ICs do not make enough per line by working for an MTSO, not all of them anyway, but that is a whole 'nother ball of wax and nothing to do with how IC status works.

Well, I disagree with you. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I don't believe "most of us" work as an IC but I don't have stats on that and I don't believe you do, either.

IC is a self-employment situation. It is not intended to have any employee benefits or rights. It is a choice. No one forces you to work as an IC. I happen to like it.

Businesses need to be able to choose what type of relationship they want to maintain to their assocites. For many, an employee relationship meets that company's needs. For others, an IC relationship satisfies.

If you want to work as an employee, get a job as an employee.

If I were in business (again) and was facing some of the demands and interference being saddled by government, I would just close up shop and let go of all of everyone, whether IC or employee. It isn't worth it.

Own your situation, please.

I happen to agree with OP - Obviously, YMMV

[ In Reply To ..]
There are fewer and fewer opportunities for employment positions. Most of them are IC, but independent in name only, as they have all the same requirements as employee positions. True IC positions are much rarer as you seem to think, so do make sure you hang on to yours, as most have set schedules and many of the other hallmarks of an employee position being disguised as an IC.

Of course it's in the MTSOs benefit to call everybody an IC. They save a bundle on taxes and benefits. The IRS would have come down hard on them by now but everybody is stuck in their job and don't dare do anything that will cause them to lose it- nobody likes a whistleblower.

But you are delusional if you think that your unique IC as a true IC is the norm. You are the exception, and I hope I can hang on long enough to watch all the MTSOs that abuse the IC concept brought low. Much like the OT settlement that a large MTSO was forced to pay to past employees, I'm thinking I would have a nice chunk of change coming when all the MTSOs with their faux IC status had to reimburse me for the portion of taxes that I was forced to pay that should have been their responsibility.

We need to stand up for ourselves. - LK

[ In Reply To ..]
I also work as an employee, as a lot of MTs do. Who knows how the numbers actually work out on IC versus employee. The company I work for does not hire ICs, it actually requires employee status to work for them. Either way, the only way MTs are going to rise above being "mistreated" is to get rid of the victim mentality. I know times are tough right now and people need jobs, but each individual has to watch out for themselves and move on if the job situation is not working for whatever reason. It may take time, but it can be done. You are only abused if you allow yourself to be. Personally, if I were working for an MTSO that was abusing IC status, I would report them. It can be done anonymously.

I am skeptical. - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Read through the job listings. Where are these employee jobs that you and the other poster claim to exist? They all state IC, IC, IC, IC. They also state required hours to work, which flies in the face of IC.

So they're all abusing IC status. So if one has a family to feed, bills to pay, etc., it appears that it's IC or not work, and since everyone's an IC, there's no unemployment to be had, either. There are a couple of employee jobs, but they're all for companies that have been declared among the worst to work for.

So if someone takes that job and is screwed over like those MTSOs have done their other employees, and a job taker comes here and growls, then you tell them to quit and not take the abuse.

So the choices are either working as an employee masquerading as an IC or working as an employee being treated like scum. I guess it's a matter of choosing what form of abuse you want to deal with.

And I find it most interesting that those people that claim to have such sweet circumstances in their own employment never name the company. One of those things that make you go hmmm.

Employee status - LK

[ In Reply To ..]
I agree with you that most of the job postings right now are for ICs. But to suggest that employee jobs don't exist is kind of ridiculous. Of course they do. I've only worked as an employee, for both a large company and now a fairly small company. I would also work as an IC if the terms were acceptable, but employee jobs were the ones I happened to find that met my criteria.

I'm not suggesting anybody quit without having another job lined up. I just get tired of people coming on this board acting all victimized. Again, why not report these companies if they're breaking the law? If you allow the abuse to go on, it will.

I disagree with her - Old Pro

[ In Reply To ..]
I have had many IC clients and I also have protection of my interests and rights. It's called a LAWYER.

Let me restate this - tapin

[ In Reply To ..]
My post was not to go tit for tat on IC versus employee. This industry has swung from employee status to IC for many more companies. This is because they have found this to benefit them. Most of us chose IC to continue working. I was offered employee status with a huge company and then told if I did they reduce your line rate to 0.065 per line? I only look for protection for all of us that if you lost your job tomorrow we are entitled to unemployment until further employment is found. We all work very hard and end result no benefit at end of road.

but - mt

[ In Reply To ..]
that's the point of what a lot of people made.

By CHOOSING IC status, you choose a higher line rate and forfeit the benefits of an employee, one of which is the ability to file for UE.

Remember when you are given a lower line rate for employee, you have to add INTO your line rate the cost of insurance, taxes, etc, which in most cases actually evens out the line rate.

I work as an IC for an MTSO but made sure it was REALLY an IC position, not an employee position masking as an IC position. I have no patience for the MTs who take the IC-but-really-employee positions and then whine about it. We teach people how to treat us and if you're willing to take the crap, then don't whine when it tastes bad.

I use to have some of the same feelings - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Then I filled out my taxes and realized how much that I would owe because of the self-employment tax and the fact I have no unemployment protection would outweight the 0.01 cent per line reduction in pay I would take to go employee status. Fortunately, my company does offer line incentives, so I could would actually be making almost the same cpl if not even more on some pay periods. It is just business. In any business that hires ICs, it is the same thing. You make more because they do not have to provide anything. So, my options are to either take the employee status or keep mailing in my monthly checks to the IRS. I think I am going to choose employee, but it is still my choice.

Almost losing site of the point, though - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
Is your job any different when an IC than it is as an employee? Speaking for myself, the only thing that changes when I become an employee from an IC is the way my paycheck reads. I will be required to work the same hours, on the same account, with the same equipment, with the same supervisor, with the same quality standard.

So, as was I believe the OP's point, I have been masquerading as an IC when in fact I am an employee.

I have been masquerading as an IC when in fact I am an employee. - mt

[ In Reply To ..]
Why do you accept that?

In my job as an IC, I choose to have one client (i.e. one MTSO). I work when I want, as much or little as I want.

It's that, or I don't work. Despite your perception, 80% of the jobs - are for IC positions.

[ In Reply To ..]
Or for MQ, which is a BT/DT 15 years ago, and since things have only gotten worse, I've got not desire to do that again.

And feel free to tell us where the IC positions are that actually let you pick and choose the hours you work. I'll gladly dump this one I have that is only masquerading as IC to be able to work a true IC position. Oh, I know....you can't tell us because they'll get flooded with applicants. Right.

Nope I'll tell ya - mt

[ In Reply To ..]
Transportal will hire ICs and there's no strict schedule.

Some of the MD-IT offices hire and there's no strict schedule.

I believe both places offer a choice of being an IC or an employee.

There are places out there, you do have to do your homework though - (and that's not really asking someone else where they work)

Yes, the exact same thing is expected of me - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
I am fortunate that I work for a company where we go by TAT and not schedules, but the employees also go by TAT and not a schedule. There were plenty of places that I could have been an employee and many that required it. I chose to be an IC. I really don't get the point as it is someone that is ticked off that they are going to have to take a decrease in pay to be an employee when if they would actually sit down and figure up, they would probably be coming out even.

But it is still illegal - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
There really should not be a choice as to being IC or employee at that point, as the jobs are exactly the same. Employment status is not supposed to be defined by the employee's (or employer's for that matter) whims; there are legal criteria to be adhered to. And obviously a person who was an IC yesterday does not magically become an employee today by signing a piece of paper.

Disagree - mt

[ In Reply To ..]
I can sign a piece of paper tomorrow saying I want to be an employee. When I become an employee, I think will work Days X and Y and hours Z and Q for a lesser rate and have benefits such as PTO, 401k, healthcare, disability, etc.

Employment is not defined by what they give you - sm

[ In Reply To ..]
In the situation noted, the job is exactly the same as far as requirements, schedule, etc., whether an IC or an employee.

And you may "think" you'll work days X and Y as an employee, but unless the company confirms that you are, it ain't happening, and the same goes as an IC.

The actual bestowing of 401Ks, disability, PTO, OT, etc., are not what defines employment vs IC. You can be an employee and have none of those things. And the wage has little to do with it, either; that's just the MTSO trying to recoup some of their profit lost by complying with legal definitions.

Element of control - mt

[ In Reply To ..]
When I had employees (statutory at first, then full), my attorney explained it all as the final determination will come down to element of control.

In my current situation, the MTSO controls nothing I do other than the work specifications - (which even stretched can be an issue for some IC positions but generally NOT for MT).

If I sign the paper and say make me an employee, they then assume total control over how my work product is produced. They let me know the schedule I will need to work, they let me know how much work I have to do in a day, in a week. They would routinely do QA audits, thus controlling my quality. These are all elements of control they do NOT utilize when dealing with an IC.

So, yeah, it really can be as simple as signing the paper.

I have been IC at six different places - in the last several years

[ In Reply To ..]
Each and everyone required a schedule, had minimum requirements, and did routine QA audits.

There is no discernible difference between my IC positions and my employee positions, except who pays taxes.

Then it's illegal on the part of the employer. - LK

[ In Reply To ..]
Those were not IC positions, they just called it that to get out of paying taxes, benefits, overtime, minimum wage, and unemployment. It's also called abuse and should not be tolerated by any of us.

the difference - mg

[ In Reply To ..]

There is no discernible difference between my IC positions and my employee positions, except who pays taxes.

The difference is you agreeing to it be treated as an employee and paid as an IC. That's illegal. It really isn't a vastly complicated concept. Your EMPLOYER knows if they are misclassifying you too. Thing is, they figure there will be someone in line behind you but at some point, you have to decide when it's no longer okay.

IC status abuse - What you can do. - LK

[ In Reply To ..]
Many MTs working as ICs are NOT ICs. If the company exerts control over how and when you work, and if you are substantially economically dependent on your employer, you are almost certainly not an IC legally. Not only do you have to pay your own employment taxes as an IC, you are not eligible for minimum wage, overtime,or unemployment insurance. By classifying you as an IC, the company gets out of paying taxes, unemployment, benefits, etc. at your expense. Neither the IRS or the Dept of Labor looks lightly on this.

What you can do: Above all, if you get terminated for lack of work, FILE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT. If you claim employee status, this will trigger an investigation of your employer as to whether it has correctly classified your employment status. You may very well find you are indeed eligible for unemployment, and your employer could find it self in some serious trouble with the Labor Board and IRS. What they SAY you are is irrelevant, it is what you actually are that determines whether you are eligible, so FILE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT!

If you are still employed, you can talk to the Worker's Comp Board, unemployment insurance office, or state or federal Dept of Labor about your belief that you are misclassified and what your options are.

There is also an IRS form SS-8 that can be filled out to trigger an investigation of whether you have been improperly classified an an IC, but the IRS will have to identify you to your employer in order to investigate, so there could be retaliation.

MTs, take action! Don't allow yourself to be abused.

I AM DOING JUST THAT - TAPIN

[ In Reply To ..]
I did file unemployment but as IC, I will notify who I can about this. I think the part that really upset me was it hit home that they do not contribute to s.s. We all do our share they should too.

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